Thinking about Faith, Leadership, and Baseball: A Conversation with Dayton Moore

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I'm joined with my co-host Nate today. And Nate, I'm going to let you introduce our special guest for the morning. Yeah, I'm really excited to have my friend Dayton Moore. The reason that we have a World Series here in Kansas City, I think, is largely because of him in 2015. Otherwise, I was five years old the time before we had that. So super grateful to have him. He's an awesome leader. Heard him speak many times. I know he's impacted the lives of many of the players in his different ball clubs. And so welcome, Dayton Moore. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it, Nate. Great to be with you guys. And it's an honor. But it's we, you know, we all brought a World Series championship to Kansas City. And, you know, one of the special blessings of that time is obviously after you win something like that, you get a lot of opportunities to speak around the country and around the region. And I certainly took advantage of that. And I got to tell the story of, you know, what a special place Kansas City is and how truly all of our success was tied together. Our fans, this environment, this community, I believe, had a huge impact on fueling the players because of their support and their encouragement and their belief as one. And, you know, it was a special time. And thankful for a lot of people and mostly the fans and Mr. Glass and the Glass family for their great support. And certainly the players are the ones that got it done. Absolutely. Do you find that, I mean, you've been at multiple ballclubs over the years. Do you find that sort of synergy in other places the same way? You know, James, I've been blessed to be in some really neat places. I started with the Atlanta Braves in 1994. And, of course, John Sherholtz was the general manager there who ironically came from Kansas City. And we had tremendous leaders there. And I had tremendous mentors that poured into me and supported me through my journey. As I said, I started as an area scout. I was blessed to do international work. I was blessed to be a part of player development and scouting and then later personnel and assistant GM. And then we came to Kansas City in June of 06 and accepted, you know, this wonderful, exciting challenge in this market. Of course, the Royals were my boyhood team. And then we were here for, you know, almost 17 years. And then God opened up another door for us to close the door here in Kansas City, opened up a door in Texas where I got a chance to join Chris Young, who was actually, you know, one of our players in 2015. And I believe the MVP of our pitching staff that won the World Series. And to work with CY and partner with his family and be a part of his vision was really neat. So, you know, to have an opportunity to be a part of three World Series championships with three different organizations and watching how those teams were built and those organizations thrived has been a great leadership lesson for me. And it's pretty simple. The world would like to make it complex and say there's some magic formula, but it's truly just a, it's a group of people that become selfless. It's a group of people that understand the importance of togetherness and unity and putting others' needs, wants and desires first and working in a very humble way and knowing that there's a singular voice at the top and supporting that and just, you know, doing something they love to do since they were little boys. And that's be in baseball. I think, you know, I don't, Warren Buffett came to Kansas City through Mr. Glass. I forget what, maybe back in 2011, 2012. And Warren Buffett said this, and it really summed it up for me and I've never forgot it. He said that what he's always tried to do is do something he loves with people he loves. And that kind of struck me as, you know, that's what we were in Atlanta. We were all doing something we loved with people we loved. That's what we tried to do here in Kansas City. And that's, you know, what Chris Young's about in Texas. And, you know, we're doing something we love with people we love. That's awesome. Do you find, I mean, when you're thinking about those teams and, you know, obviously you're talking about, you know, having that selfless attitude and having that unity. It's easy to think of that sort of on the field or when you're practicing and all that kind of good stuff. But how much of that actually takes place in non-baseball settings? I mean, the way these guys are sort of practicing and living. I did personal training for a while in Chicago. You know, you know, there's a fairly limited amount you can actually get done in three one-hour training sessions during a week. And, you know, the clients that performed the best for me were the ones who really took it to heart, took it home. They started living a lifestyle that would really help them get the results they wanted. Do you find that similar thing in teams? Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, it's, you know, one of the things that when we came to Kansas City and we had a lot of building to do, the organization lacked in a lot of areas. And so, you know, one of the three criteria that we had in hiring people, because we know leaders shape culture, right? Leaders are the ones shaping culture. And, you know, the three things that we felt were really important is we wanted to hire leaders who could apply moral principles in their life. And the reason I felt that that was so important is because there's nobody I've ever worked with, no successful person I've ever worked with, where, you know, their personal life didn't leak into their professional life and their professional life's going to leak into their personal life. And so you wanted them to be the type of individuals that could make good choices outside the workplace. They had to understand that their main team was at home, their family, whether they were married or they had kids or they were taking care of, you know, grandparents or parents or what have you. We made it, made them understand that, you know, your main team is at home and it's important to make good choices away from the workplace so you can be freed up to do well, you know, at your job and whatever your job description says that you need to do and perform and perform that well. And so everybody that we ever hired, I always told them the same thing. And I said, look, figure out how much time it takes for you to be the greatest husband and the greatest father and then give the Braves, the Royals, the Rangers, give us everything else. But figure out how much time it takes you to to be the best husband and father that you can be. And and so you're right. I think it's it's a lifestyle. You have to live it. And, you know, I had a young scout call me yesterday and he was talking about the balance. He wanted to know my opinion on how to balance, you know, the work life and the family life. And, you know, he's a scout and he's traveling, you know, all constantly. And he has two young children, a four year old son and a one year old daughter at home. And I shared that with him. But I also talked to him about, you know, the importance of having your kids in Sunday school, your kids being in church, having that community around them that's going to come around, come alongside of them and support them in a loving way, in a nonjudgmental way and and just be there. And, you know, oftentimes, you know, we we like to judge other people instead of just have compassion for what they're going through. And, you know, that's one of the biggest lessons that I've learned in athletics and sports is, you know, we're asked to constantly evaluate and judge others and and be critical of them. And sometimes when we're critical, it leaks into our spirit as well or critical with our spirit and things get personal. But, you know, I've tried to I've found myself just trying to just look at people in a compassionate way instead of a judgmental way. Why are they the way they are? Why are they performing the way they are? Why are they acting the way they are? Try to understand first before, you know, you make any judgment. And, you know, that's that's one of the things that's been really, really important to, I think, to my leadership style. And it's really what's helped build the relationships that I value so much is, you know, instead of judging the people and the players that you work with, be compassionate towards them. That's good. And I think you always get right where they're at. You don't do that from afar. You don't do that from the top. What I've seen of you is you're very hands on. You're very relational. I mean, and we all both saw that at the beginning of this call. You got a whole rundown of James whole family and

life, and I think that speaks to who you are, and not everyone can do that unless you're intentional and relational and sincere. I think people can sense really quickly when we're not authentic or we're not genuine, for sure. Yeah, it's nice of you to say. Thank you, Nate. Yeah, it's nice. You know, we were talking in the pre-interview a little bit about the media, and it just strikes me that, you know, when you're talking about being nonjudgmental, one of the things that I learned as an academic dean was to figure out how to be curious and compassionate about the people who are coming to talk to me, just trying to recognize that they had issues that I didn't understand. And so very similar to what you're talking about in your leadership strategy, but oftentimes what we're seeing, I think, in the media is that the media leads us to judgments. The media helps us sort of frame out exactly what we need to see and gives us a picture of people that probably isn't as accurate as we'd like it to be. Obviously, you're in the limelight and you're working with guys who are in the limelight far more than me or Nate. How does that media really play itself out, not even just, you know, in the public, but also on the team? Yeah, that's a great question. First of all, I think I've got so many great friends that work in the media, and they've got a very difficult job and they've got really intense pressures to break stories and to, you know, drive the number of clicks on social media and what have you. But I've always felt that the role of the player, the role of the general manager, the role of kind of a spokesperson of the organization is how do you create pathways for relationships to thrive and give the necessary information so the people in the media can tell the story so well and inspire the fans and their readers to want to follow the stories of the players and the people and use it to inspire. And so we've always tried to be very transparent of what we can be about a player or about a situation. And transparency, there's so much freedom in that anyway. I mean, I've always told players and people, you might as well be transparent in life because we're all going to get exposed anyway. And, you know, just try to give as much information as you can to the member of the media when they're when they're telling the story so they can tell the story well and and create that pathway between the player, the fan or the community in a way that everybody's inspired. And and again, sometimes you all know, we all know that it's one of the most difficult things to communicate is emotions. Oftentimes, it just doesn't come out right, no matter how we try. It's hard to articulate feelings and emotions. And so when somebody does make a mistake and maybe crosses the line, I've always tried to try to understand what happened or just be full, you know, full of grace and be forgiving towards, you know, the situation and just try to attack it in a way that is kind and just supportive and trying to understand. But I had a great mentor and Bobby Cox, who, you know, I watched how he dealt with the media. And he was always kind towards them and always truthful and transparent. And he had great relationships with many of the members in the media. You know, and I've had certainly a lot of personal attacks, whether it be, you know, about my faith or or certain things and people take things out of context and you can spin them any any way they want. But I mean, we had the greatest example of anybody in the history of the universe when Jesus was on the cross and forgive the Father for they know not what they do. And when Stephen was being stoned, you know, for for his faith. And I'm just so thankful we have those examples and in our lives that remind us the importance of just, you know, try not to take things personal. And if we're if we are being attacked, it's it's probably, you know, it's it's potentially a good thing, you know. Well, I got a couple of questions on, you know, social media and how maybe you counsel players. But before we get into that, maybe we should, you know, talk about the role of your faith in the way your life works, just leadership, home life, all of those different things. How does how does Jesus factor? You know, James, I started I was blessed to start leading departments when I was 28, 29 years old, you know, with the Atlanta Braves. I was asked to be the assistant director of scouting and that role was going to be pretty much running the day to day operations of the scouting, the amateur scouting department. That's how it was described to me. And I really felt that it was a great honor, but I knew that I was not qualified to do that. You know, the Atlanta Braves were the model organization in baseball. This was in the mid 90s. They were in the beginning stages of one of the most historic runs in the history of baseball, 14 straight division titles. And so in knowing that I was going to have to lead and lead people that had more experience than me in a lot of cases, you know, I sought out who were the best leaders in the history of the world. And certainly Abraham Lincoln was a great leader. And Dr. The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King was a great leader. And and, you know, I started just looking at these leaders and I said, well, holy cow, Jesus is the greatest leader of all time. Right. And so I, I created seven principles, guiding principles of my life that I wanted to lead. And I knew that, you know, to whatever characteristics and qualities I wanted in our group, I needed to model them. Right. And so I wrote down seven things that I think were important. I've yet to live these seven principles fully and I make mistakes constantly, but it's a reminder of the following that as a leader, I wanted to settle disputes quickly. I wanted to be responsive to people. I wanted to give people more than they expect, you know, having above and beyond attitude. I wanted to share the glory and when, when things went well, take basically take credit for nothing. I wanted to stand up for our people when things didn't go right. I wanted to be the type of leader that wasn't going to kick people when they were down, show them grace, expect a lot, but show them grace when they make mistakes. I wanted to be the type of leader that would always remain calm in the eye of the storm. And, and then I wanted to be a leader that constantly practiced one-on-one communication and spending time with people. Now in full transparency, those leadership lessons, I got from a book from Bob Brenner. It was called the leadership lessons of Jesus. So I just wanted to follow the greatest leader of all time. And that was Jesus. And then as I was following him, I realized that he was the greatest competitor of all time as well. You know, one of the things that always like just would anger me is when people would say Christians are soft. And I'm thinking to myself, Christians, man, that is so true. Christians are the greatest competitors ever. Jesus was the greatest competitor ever. Now he may have competed differently. You know, he wasn't in your face or he didn't have to show that he was out there, you know, wanting it more than everybody else, but you know, he put everybody else first and he competed for everybody else above self. And there's nothing that's more inspiring and rewarding and freeing that when you compete for somebody else and put them first and he was competing for our souls and our eternal being. And, and so through my, through wanting to follow him as a leader and realize he was the greatest competitor, that's how really, I think my relationship began to form with him. And so that's how, you know, for me and my faith journey, I mean, I, I grew up in and out of church. I had great spiritual leaders. I knew I accepted Jesus as a young person, but I, I don't think I really had a relationship with him until I started in, in leadership. And, you know, oftentimes that relationship was formed through or deepened through, you know, the difficult times and because the enemy tells us the following lies, he, when we're going good and we have success, you know, the enemy tells us how good we are and how smart we are and how we came from a great family and we deserve this. And, and man, you're just, you just, you just, you know, you're doing this all yourself, man. You're really, really good. And then conversely, when you're having a bad day or you're not doing good, the enemy tells us that, yep, you didn't have the right education. You didn't come from the right family. You're not good enough. All those things that people say about you is true. And so that's where, you know, again, I go back to the relationship with Jesus and being able to talk with him and share things with him. And he points me out that, you know what, I'm a, I'm his child. I'm, I'm valued. I'm worth it. He has a plan for me. And, and so.

That's really been kind of the driving force for anything I've ever done in leadership. That's awesome. How do you, real quickly, how do you approach that when it's a member of the team, whichever team you've been involved with, that doesn't have faith? Do you lead that out first by example and just by living your life with them, or do you talk with them up front? How do you, or does it depend on the case? It depends on the case. It really does. I mean, what I've always tried to do is model the behavior I want to see, okay? And I've always felt that it's by developing a relationship and truly just getting to know people, making sure that they know I'm not judging them, knowing them that I'm here for them, you get opportunities to talk one-on-one. I've had multiple times I've had a chance to pray with players in my office on, you know, whatever they're going through, whether it's, you know, relational lack of success on the field, you know, it's, you know, but I've always been outspoken about my faith because I know I am who I am and where I am because of the blessings of Jesus. And, you know, he's, I know I don't deserve anything. I try to remind myself daily that nobody owes me anything and I don't deserve anything. Now, there's certain things in life that perhaps we've earned, you know, you can earn a degree and you can earn certain opportunities based on what you've, you know, what you've achieved or whatever, whatever, whatever. But it's, anyway, that's, and I've never been, I've never ran away from, you know, from my faith because I, like I said, I know who I am. And it's got me in a lot. I mean, we've, You know, we were talking offline earlier about, you know, Lansing Correctional Facility here in Kansas City. And I think it was in 2017, I had the blessing to speak there and I was given a presentation in the morning and then I was walking to another end, another part of the facility to give a presentation. I was walking through the courtyard and this young man approached me and, and he asked me that if he could ever work for the Royals when he got out of the facility. And I said, you know, perhaps I said, you know, we're always looking for good people. And I asked him what he was in here, what he was in the correctional facility for. And he told me he raped a girl when he was 15. And for whatever reason, I just asked him, I said, when did you first see pornography? And he said, when he was 12. And that just, just hit me so hard because I knew and know being in player development and being with players, I mean, the struggles that a lot of our players had with, you know, relationships and maybe being addicted to pornography. And I felt like that, you know what, we needed to have some individuals, some experts come in and, and speak to our players about that if they wanted to. It wasn't mandatory, but we, we gave them the opportunity and so many players showed up. Well, it made the national media. And of course I got criticized greatly for, for doing that. And I'm, but, but one of my proudest moments, um, was a few days after many of the articles came out about me and, and attacking me personally. Uh, it was from Mrs. Glass who, uh, was uh Mr. Glass's obviously wife who owned the Royals. And she said to me, she said, I've never been more proud of the Kansas City Royals and your leadership than I am right now. And because of us, you know, providing that opportunity, you know, for our players. And, and so to, probably to answer your question a little more directly and specifically is, it's the thing that's always burdened me in leadership is when there's something that needs to be addressed, um, and you refuse to address it. Like winning streaks, losing streaks. Um, you know, that's, that's all part of being in professional sports. But as a leader, when you fail to address something, when you fail to confront something, you're condoning it. What you permit, you promote. And, um, you know, so I, I was just really convicted at that time that, you know what, we, we need to do better in some of these areas. If we honestly, honestly care deeply about our players becoming men and being great husbands and great fathers one day, we have to address the things that are driving a wedge between being a great father and being a great husband. And for some people, it has been an addiction to pornography. Mm. Absolutely. You know, looking at some of those trends, and I don't know, I mean, it makes intuitive sense that obviously, you know, professional baseball players are going to have a lot of the same temptations we do, maybe even ramped up, you know, a level because of the various lifestyles that they're leading. Traveling a lot. It probably does get lonely. There's, you know, there's other factors there that maybe, you know, people who just work a nine to five don't exactly experience. And so that sort of leads me back to the question I wanted to ask about social media. How do you, how do you counsel your players or do you counsel your players on what they put out on social media? You know, it's such a, it feels like it would be such a microscope that these guys are under. And using that platform just feels like it would either feed your ego in a good way or deflate your ego in a bad way. You know, it, it just doesn't feel like it would be great for the psyche. So how have you, how have you dealt with that? Well, we, we try, you know, once, uh, once a player enters your organization, I mean, you have a, certainly an orientation. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. We have seminars and sessions on, on, you know, how to communicate with the media, how to use social media properly. Um, it's a big part of, you know, today's player, of course. But one of the things I always say, and again, the leaders have to, whatever we say, we have to model, right? Yeah. And so what I've always tried to say from the very beginning with players and remind them that words spoken or written, um, should be done in a very encouraging and uplifting way. And I've always tried to do that. And whether I'm going to a press conference or, or speaking, uh, on a podcast or to a member of the media or on any topic, I've always tried to remind myself, words spoken and written should be done in an encouraging and uplifting way. And so that's always been a reminder to myself. And I've shared that with countless players through the years and, and they do have a platform and they're young, uh, and they're inexperienced in a lot of ways. And again, and if they do make a mistake, it's okay. And you know, we admit you made a mistake and you, and you move on from it and you just simply say, you know what, I could have said that better or could have communicated to that in a, in a more, much more clear way. And, um, you know, I'm sorry, I don't want to hurt anybody. Um, you know, I want to, I want to lift people up. And so, you know, I just, again, I just, I've just tried to, to, to live it, but also remind the players constantly, look, it's a united front. Everything that happens in this clubhouse, in this team is, stays within our group. We work it out one on one as a group, and we try not to air our dirty laundry. And, and, um, you know, we, we have a positive united front. As I mentioned offline, you know, we, we just had some player development meetings in Charlotte, North Carolina with all of our coordinators. And, you know, one of the things that, you know, I shared with the group was, look, when we're in these meetings, let's discuss everything. Let's talk about, um, everything that we're seeing. Let's look at this and with a very critical eye. Let's, uh, let's try to expose ourselves and, and

find out where our blind spots are. But once we exit this room and go out into the affiliates, you know, where our players are, the different places they're playing, we have to have a united front, and we have to support one another unconditionally. And, you know, I think that's just something you've got to continue to talk about. But again, the leaders have the model. Leaders are shaping culture, and you have to model it. You also talked before the interview a little bit about your experience internationally, and you mentioned it, you know, as an international scout and those kind of things, kind of seeing the world. And you mentioned something again in the pre-interview. You just said, you know, parents around the world want kind of the same things for their kids. And I'm wondering if you could elaborate on that just a little bit. You know, what have you, what experience, how have those experiences shaped your understanding of what people really are looking for, what they really desire, and how maybe we can assist with that? You know, it's, you know, one of the things I've learned, especially, you know, when we had, you know, all this, you know, when we had the George Floyd incident that really kind of, you know, just, I think, opened our eyes to a lot of things. Yeah. It just did. I mean, we all felt, you know, something different during that period of time. But, you know, I quickly thought back on my experiences in baseball. And, you know, I've had the blessing to travel all over the world where baseball is played. All over Asia, all over Latin America, the urban, suburban, and rural parts of this country. And I've sat in homes of those families and different cultures, and I'm grateful for that experience. And so, but what I've learned is that moms and dads all over the world want the exact same thing for their children. We're all similar at the core. And we want to be valued. We want people to, we want to be loved. We want somebody to be there for our children and to provide great examples for our children. We want people to give us the benefit of the doubt and give us multiple chances. We want to be around people that are going to be problem solvers and create pathways for relationships to thrive. We want a lot of grace in life. We want forgiveness in life. Isn't that the gospel? That's what the gospels tell us. And that's why Jesus is the greatest leader in the history of the world. He's the greatest competitor in the history of the world. And that's why it's so important to have a relationship, you know, with him. So you can get to know him and he can pick you up and be there for you and deliver you through, you know, all the challenges of life. And so, you know, but that's what I've learned and every human being wants the exact same thing. And that's what baseball has taught me. And, you know, I read an article yesterday that Andy Reid was talking about Harrison Buckner, you know, and all this controversy that's surrounding him. And it's so true because, you know, when a baseball team leaves spring training, you have a lot of different person. They're getting to know each other. The team's usually different every year. I mean, you may have probably half the team or two thirds of the team that maybe is different. And everybody has different family upbringings, different economic needs, different religions, and they all start off kind of feeling each other out. There's always a little bit of a tension that people work through. But by the end of the year, it is a family and they become one. And I've never been in a clubhouse on the last day when everybody is going their way where there are tears and people are going to miss one another. And they all have different religions, different backgrounds, different ways of doing things, but they become one. And so it's always shown me and proved to me that at our core, we want to be in relationship with one another, even those that have perhaps the greatest differences of viewing life. And, you know, we're attracted to that. And so embrace it. And again, it goes back to that's who Jesus is. He had compassion for people and spent time with those that were hurting the most and at the deepest level of conflict in their lives. He was there. Yeah, that's great. Do you see that, you know, sort of that mentality, this idea of, you know, when you talk about players and Nate's mentioned this to me as well, it sounds a lot like you're mentoring these players. You're helping them mature. You're putting structures in place so that they have some guardrails and guide rails so that they can perform their best, not only on the field, but at home and various other places. Does that transfer over into the mentoring you work you do with your nonprofit organization? It does, James. And, you know, I've never looked at, I've never looked at them as players. I've looked at them as sons and brothers and future husbands and future fathers and people that were going to strengthen our community and our country. And baseball is simply an opportunity to grow them as leaders. That's the commonality we all share. We have a love for baseball, but it's the people that sustain us in it. And I'm not looking at, and I've always shared with our coaches, don't look at these guys as players. Look at them as sons and brothers and future husbands and fathers. What would you want your son to know? What would you want your daughter to know? How, if one of these players was going to date your daughter, marry your daughter, raise your grandchildren, what qualities would you want seen in them? Okay. And so value them deeply, value them greatly. The more you value them, the better values they'll have. And that's how we've kind of looked at it. And it's so natural that, you know, we've, you know, our, our, our C in the major leagues foundation, we're in our 10th year and we're getting ready to start our seventh year of our mentoring program where we have anywhere from 18 to 20 kids from different areas of Kansas city. And some of them are in high risk situations. Some aren't, but you know, we, we provide them with one-on-one mentoring once a week. We meet once a week and we do life together and all kinds of different programs that in the curriculum that helps shape them and mold them as, as leaders. But the number one thing that we do is just come alongside of them in a nonjudgmental way and, and just be there for them. And really what happens more than anything else, it's a lot of reverse mentoring as well. You know, the students and they end up mentoring, you know, the mentors and the leadership team of the foundation because we learned so much from them as well. I love what you're doing there. That's awesome. How many mentors do you currently have in it? I mean, you said 18 to 20 kids, right? Yeah, we do. We'll have probably about, yes. And then we'll probably have about, we call them probably about 10 pinch hitters. Okay. We call them pinch hitters, you know, people that, you know, when somebody can't make it and what have you. In fact, we have our, our fundraising event tonight at top golf, which we, you know, we hope to raise 60 to $70,000. That pretty much covers the mentoring program for a year. We do etiquette training with the kids, ACT prep. They do a service project. Obviously we, we, we feed them. We pay for obviously the facility that, that we, we meet every other year. We, we do a leadership immersion program in the mountains of New Mexico called wilderness trek. And it's a, it's a faith-based program that the kids get a chance to, to go through. And we we've had some, some of our students have never been on an airplane before and, and they're getting an opportunity to go spend, like I said, a week basically in the mountains of New Mexico out in the wilderness. And it's, it's really been kind of, it's really been a neat thing. And I want to say, James, we have maybe 28 kids that are in college right now that have graduated through the years. And you know, they're all, they're all doing well. It's neat. Yeah, it's neat. That's so cool. Real quick. Where's the website for that? If someone wanted to get involved with the show notes. Yeah, just see it. See in the major leagues.org, you know, the letter C you in the major leagues.org. And we have a, a character and leadership program that is centered around, you know, C words, character, composure, you know, competition. And, you know, so anyway, just a lot of different things that we take them through. And, but the most important thing we do is just do life with them and form relationships and encourage and, and, you know, it's by being there for somebody, encouraging people. I mean, that's, that's how you motivate them through life. So that's, that's all we're trying to do. Absolutely. That's awesome. I love that. You, you know, as you think about your next stage in your career here, you know, you've moved around a fair amount. I remember the Braves in the nineties.

Obviously, I'm close enough to Kansas City that I know about the Royals. Where do you see yourself going? I mean, do you see, and I'm not talking about your next necessarily career move, but maybe how do you see yourself evolving as a leader? How do you see yourself growing as a leader? What would you like your next challenge to look like? You know, that's a great question. I'm trying to figure it out. I really am. You know, I didn't want to get let go by the Royals. I didn't think I'd be the general manager or the president there forever, but it was my boyhood team. And, you know, we've been here in Kansas City for almost 17 years and we'd had opportunities to leave and go to bigger markets. And, you know, and that's really the professional model. When you win in a small market or at a small or intermediate college, you move on to the next stage. I mean, Bill Self obviously wanted Oral Roberts. He went to the University of Illinois. He won at Illinois. Then he went to Kansas, and that's what many people have done in baseball. And so I knew that from a professional standpoint that we're putting ourselves at risk by staying in Kansas City after we'd won the World Series when we had opportunities to go to bigger markets. But I didn't make decisions based on what was best for me professionally. We were making decisions on what was best for us personally and trying to, you know, follow what we believe God wanted us to do. And so, but again, I didn't want to get let go from the Royals. I wanted to, you know, I expected to be there forever in some type of capacity. That didn't happen. As I said, God closed that door. He opened up a door in Texas. I'm loving doing what I'm doing with Chris Young and getting a chance to mentor and share experiences with others and young families. And, you know, Matthew West, singer, songwriter, author, Matthew West says it this way. He says, life's more fulfilling when you become a character in somebody else's story. And so I feel like I'm more of a character in other people's story right now. I'm trying and after leading departments for all those years and being a decision maker, it's been a little bit of a challenge, I must say. But I'm trying, I'm trying to adapt to that and adjust to that. So to answer your question, I don't know. I feel like in some, in some ways, I'm just getting ready to lead. I've had enough challenges in my life and made enough mistakes that, and I'm willing to share those mistakes that I'm just really kind of getting equipped to lead. And we've had some opportunities to join some leadership groups and, and, you know, whether it worked with corporations and companies on an individual basis with small leadership teams on a continuous basis and mentor and talk about leadership. And because there's, as you all know, leadership is needed today more than any other time in the history of our country, in our communities and our families. And but very few people are willing to step up and lead. I mean, and I don't want to get into politics a whole lot, but I mean, I look at, you know, what, what do we have? I mean, come on. I mean, some of the choices that, I mean, the, I don't, I don't understand, you know, some of our, our brightest people and need to, we say, would step up and lead and be more vulnerable. And, and, um, you know, it's just, uh, it's an interesting time and you know, and I know that, uh, God's not pulling for donkeys. He's not pulling for Republicans or, uh, elephants, right? He's pulling for, he's pulling for people. He's pulling for people. And, and I just, again, it goes back to that. I believe we're more similar than we tell ourselves. And, um, you know, there's one kingdom. It's God's kingdom. It's not Democrats. It's not Republicans. It's, it's about people. It's about being intentional and come alongside of people in a very intentional way. It's not politics. It's just, you try to help people and, and do the best you can. And it's, uh, I just wish that, you know, we weren't, and again, I don't think we're as divided as the media likes to tell us. I think we're more alike than, than we, we really understand. Absolutely. One thing that you've mentioned earlier kind of, uh, resonates with me that, uh, when you were in that first position, when you were made the director of the scouting teams, that that was a real stretch for you, that, that you sort of felt the, the pain of that position, um, you know, if I can say it like that. And I've always felt. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. Like one of the best ways God has grown me is by putting me in positions where I was feeling some pain. Like there was some pressure because I tend towards self-sufficiency. I am, you know, I tend to lean back on my capabilities. And so I think that God often puts me in positions where I have no idea what I'm doing and couldn't get out of it myself if I tried. And so, as you look forward in your career, you know, obviously we don't, maybe we don't wish those situations would come up, but there's a part of me as I've experienced them over the years that I, I don't know that I want them, but I sort of welcome them. Do you feel the same way in that, in that respect? That's a great way to put it. And, you know, I think that one of the things that we're often faced with is, you know, that four-letter word fear. Yeah. And, you know, I know I've experienced it multiple times, that fear of failure, being vulnerable, putting yourself out there and being transparent about the things that you don't know. I mean, be convicted in what you do know and what you do believe. But, you know, I, yeah, I've, I've felt that throughout my entire life. Like I said, am I, am I capable enough? Am I, uh, ready for a certain opportunity? Um, you know, but the important thing is that if a door's opened for you and you're, you're, you're walking with Jesus and you're following in the Holy Spirit's in your life and a door opens, you should, it's, it's open for a reason. And, um, I've always wanted to make sure that, you know, I had capable people around me, people that were always gonna speak truth into my life, uh, spiritual mentors for sure, at different levels as well. I mean, when I first got into leading departments, my spiritual mentors were always older than me. But what I've learned is let's have spiritual mentors at all phases of our life. Spiritual mentors that are perhaps, you know, a lot younger than you, the same age as you, and certainly older, you know, different phases of their life that can help you, you know, understand, you know, all the different generations and what they are experiencing. And, um, you know, a guy named Tim Elmore, Dr. Tim Elmore, who has a foundation called Growing Leaders and he's a disciple of John Maxwell. And he's been a good friend of mine through the years. But Tim Elmore kind of really helped realize that, helped me realize that the importance of having spiritual mentors at all different levels and phases of their life to speak into you. Very cool. Well, I know we're getting close to wrapping up here. And so I've been trying to ask my guests one final question. It's kind of a big question, but, um, you know, so feel free to limit your answer or talk about it however you'd like. But, you know, on Thinking Christian, we, we think an awful lot about discipleship and building the body of Christ. And so I wonder what you think Christians should be thinking about today to be and make disciples for Jesus Christ more faithfully and more effectively. That's a great question. Um, I think of a lot of things. I think that, you know, the, the strength of our teams, the strength of our community, the strength of our organizations, our country is going to be, is traced right back to the strength of our families. Um, you know, husbands, uh, wives, husbands work hard to make, keep your relationships strong, keep your marriage strong. It's hard to raise children under the

circumstances, work hard to to love your wife the way Christ loved the church, serve her, just honor her in front of your children. Do everything you can to keep your family strong. And it begins with the father and loving, loving his wife and the mother of his children. That's what I believe. I think that, you know, the importance of just again, modeling the behavior you want seen in seen in others instead of telling them what to do. Just model it. Look at people in a very non, you know, have compassion for people instead of judging people. There was something else that I wanted to say and it slipped my mind, doggone it. Tell me, tell me what was your question again? I'm sorry, James, sorry. What do you think? Yeah. What do you think Christians ought to be thinking about in order to be and make disciples more faithfully today? Yeah. And I think that fast forward, you know, fast forward, you know where you want to be in life. How do you want to be remembered in life? And what do you want said about you when your time is through and begin to live that. And, you know, it's, it's, it's so intentional that way. But I think as a body, more than anything else, I think we've got to make an advance decision that we're going to support leaders and especially men and men and women of faith. My pastor is not perfect. He's not the perfect husband. He's not the perfect father. You know, he's, he's, he, he may say something inappropriate at times. He's a human being, but if his, if his heart's right and he's working to, to follow Jesus and, and to, to be who Jesus wants him to be, I'm going to make an advance decision. I'm going to support him. You know, I think back on many of our players and some of the mistakes that they made through their, their lives and, and their careers. And, you know, we just made the advance decision that we're going to love them and support them. Now there's consequences for actions. I'm not saying that you don't tell the truth. I'm not saying that you never want to undercover, you never want to cover anything up, be transparent, but let's, let's, let's make advance decisions right now that we're going to support our leaders. Like if president Biden wins the election, I'm going to make an advance decision right now. I'm going to pray for him. If president, former president Trump wins the election, I'm going to make an advance decision right now. I'm going to pray for him. I'm going to support our leaders and and pray for them. And I'm always going to tell the truth, but I'm going to tell the truth in a positive and encouraging way. And and so I know I probably butchered your question and was probably all over the place a little bit, but those are just some of the things that God put on my heart there. Yeah, no, not at all. I know it's a big question. And so it's kind of intended to get people just talking. I think what you said there was really helpful. Highlight in on the family and that family structure. And then I love the advanced decision idea. Let's make the advanced decision to support our leaders because that's just that's those are the people who God has put in place. And so we've got to we've got to support the people that God has put in place. And yeah, I really appreciate that answer. Yeah. Yeah. You always speak with such conviction and wisdom. And literally every time I've ever heard you speak, it always challenges me and inspires me to be better. So I just really appreciate you sharing all that insight, all your experience. That's just incredible. Can I can I ask? I'll kick myself if I don't ask one thing. Can you give us maybe one highlight that's your favorite part of that fifteen, 2015 era when we won the championship here in Kansas City? Well, I mean, there's so many different ones. I know. But I remember, you know, when when, you know, Lorenzo Cain, you know, drew the leadoff walk there in the ninth. And of course, Hosmer, you know, I just thought the reason I think of Lorenzo Cain drawing that leadoff walk because he'd struggled for so many years about laying off that breaking ball down and away. And I know how hard he worked to discipline himself and recognize that pitch. And he did it at the most crucial time. And, you know, that's that speaks to his growth and what he ultimately became. Certainly Eric Hosmer's mad dash into home plate, that fearlessness and that intensity and the instincts of Eric Hosmer, which I got to see so many times in the world, finally got to see who he was about. And but but, you know, having the parade here in Kansas City really kind of brought it together. I mean, we had over 800,000 people at that parade. Our players conducted themselves professionally. They were engaging with the fans. They were they acted proper, in my opinion, and in an honoring way. And, you know, I'm thankful for that. And, you know, and just being able to honor the community and honor our fans. But there's so many different stories, you know, with that. I think of the Glass family and how they were rewarded. You know, they were very supportive of ours and patient with us as we were building the team. And and, you know, it took courage for Mr. Glass to stay with us because I'm sure there's a lot of people in the media and so forth that felt that we should have been removed. And I should have been fired because we we didn't win in a five, six year period. And it took us longer than people expected. But or the media. But we knew that it was going to take six to eight years to build the team up. I mean, it's just the evolution of players. And and so, again, it's we were able to win because of just the people coming together and God's grace. And he saved us from from from us many a time. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for sharing that. That's awesome. Yeah. Thanks for being on the show, man. This has been fantastic to get to know you a little bit and just hear your insights on leadership and baseball and society and Christianity and all of that. So really appreciate you being on. It's been fantastic to have you. It's been great to be with you guys, too. And if we can ever help you or someone you care about, please let us know. Will do. Thanks, man. All right, everybody. Yep, we're gonna close the episode out. We'll catch you on the next episode of Thinking Christian. I just want to take a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast. If you go to LifeAudio.com, you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more. Hey, friends, I'm Susan Michael. My podcast, The Out of Zion Show, is now partnering with Life Audio Podcast Network. You know, after decades of travel and study in Israel, I created Out of Zion to bring you a simple, clear, powerful insights about the Bible, Jesus, Israel, and your own walk of faith. Follow Out of Zion on your favorite podcasting app. I can't wait to take this journey with you.