For King and County’s Story: An Interview with Luke Smallbone

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I'm James Spencer, and I'm here with my co-host Nate Giarontano and Luke Smallbone from For King & Country. And we're going to be talking about their new movie that's coming out detailing the life and happenings of For King & Country. And so, Luke, we're really happy to have you here, man. Can you just tell us a little bit about, you know, where you guys are at, your story a little bit, and then we'll dive into some questions. Yeah, yeah. So originally born in Australia, hopefully you can still tell. My dad was a concert promoter back there. And I want to particularly tell a story that he brought back to Australia, but the tour didn't go very well, and my dad lost everything that we had as a family. Lost the house, the car, the life savings. And my dad was looking for a fresh start for his career, for the family. And he got a job offer in Nashville, Tennessee. And he thought it would be a good idea to move his six kids and his wife, who was six months pregnant at the time. And that's exactly what we did. As soon after we arrived in Nashville, my dad lost that job. And we were sleeping on beds made out of clothes, sleeping on beds made out of clothes when we were waiting for our little sister to be born in a hospital. We weren't always quite sure what the next meal was going to come from, didn't have a car, had all sorts of crazy struggles for those first few years that we were here. And we didn't know what else to do other than just gather around as a family and just start praying for these amazing things to take place. And we got to see amazing things happen. And I've told that story, or a version of that story, pretty much everywhere I've gone in the last 12 years. And had a lot of people come up and say, man, you guys should write a book. And the truth is, Joel and I were homeschooled, and so we don't read or write very well. And thought maybe we could do a movie instead. So I went to an L.A. friend of mine and pitched him this idea. And he said, let's put the script into development and see where it goes. And the hobby behind the movie really is, look, I think family is more powerful today than it ever has been in the history of the world, but we do not value it as such. And Mother Teresa says if you want to change the world, go home and love your family. And that's kind of the thesis statement and the point of this movie on some hero. That's incredible. I've heard that story many times over the years. You guys always share it at a certain point at concerts and things. And so I'm super excited to see this. How do you think it is for Joel to play that role of the old bloke? Yeah. Well, I mean, they're basically the same person as it is. So I don't think it's pretty natural. Joel jokes that it's a very expensive therapy session. which, you know, when you play in your parents in a movie or your father in this case, I think he's probably accurate. I mean, he makes a good point that, you know, when I think for all of our parents, like there gets a point where you're like, Dad, come on, Mom, really? And what you realize, a lot of the things that annoy us about our parents is because we just didn't live their life and we didn't live through the things that they had to live through. And we only know them from when we were brought into the world. But when you go back and you start to relive some of the things that they went through, it provides a lot of empathy. It provides a lot of compassion for who they are as people. And so I think that Joel, I think both Joel and I have felt that in making this movie. But I think for Joel acting as dad in the film, probably particularly so. So, man, I mean, I agree with you on the power of the family. And I just want to circle back to that comment. You know, I think as a working dad, my wife works too. So we're kind of a two-income family. Family can tend to get lost in just the busyness of life. What are some things you might suggest to folks, just given your experience and your upbringing, but also I'm sure you have a busy schedule. How do you stay connected? How do you do family? And how do you make it a priority? Yeah. Like, I mean, this is one of those things where each individual family has got to probably find their own thing, because what I'm about to say, people are gonna be like, there's no way I could do that. But I bring my kids with me virtually everywhere I go. I always usually I'll have one kid with me. Even right now, I got an Evie in the back. And so that's the way of being able to keep family around and really, really close is I think that there's been a little bit of a loss in, like parents go off and do their thing. And in some cases, it's not acceptable to have kids. And I totally respect that. But like, we've just kind of, in the olden days, you worked obviously in your home, you know, you were a carpenter or you were this and your kids were always around. It's only in the last hundred years, for the most part, that there's a lot of going out from the home. And so what I would encourage is, and obviously, like I said, me going on the road, having a kid with me flying, doing all things is, works for us, may not work for other people. But what is your own version of that? What is your own, like, hey, well, why can't I just, you know, bring someone along? You know, why can't I to that meeting? Because here's the thing, our kids these days only learn how to fit in with other kids. So there's a maturity. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up and many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text guide to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text guide to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. Lacking in most kids these days. But if kids learn how to fit in with adults, the measurement of who they're trying to be and who they're hoping to be is far greater. Hey, everybody, at this point in the interview, Luke's daughter actually hopped into the room and asked to use the restroom. So Luke had to step away just a little bit. There was no real way to clip it to make it make sense in the episode. So I'm including this little interlude to give everybody an idea of what happened. But I think it was just sort of an amazing, serendipitous experience where Luke gets to showcase the sort of interactions that he has with his family and the way that they're actually involved and entangled within his life. It was a beautiful illustration of the way that he's describing what he does to keep his family together. And so we're going to hop back into the interview. It's a little bit disjointed, but hopefully you'll catch the overall vibe. And I don't think it's too disruptive. So here we go back to the interview with Luke Smallbone. Sorry. I mean, that's just evidence of what we were talking about, right? But anyway, to finish that statement, I think that we, I think kids are going to get a lot of enough time with other kids. My struggle with today's day and age is we don't get enough time. Kids don't get enough time with adults. And what I would say to parents is how do you, how do you, how do we do something about that would be my encouragement. Well, not every situation is like yours, like you said, but I've seen like your kids, like your boys, they're getting life experiences, doing that too and getting opportunities to grow and get outside of, like you said, you know, just their age group. And I think that's amazing. I think that's incredible. And they're going to thank you for that someday for sure. Hopefully. Well, man, I mean, I'll be paying for a massive therapy session later on. Who knows? You probably can't win no matter what you do. I mean, it's sort of one of those things that, you know, you can't provide everything. And so they're always going to be lacking something. But I will say I've started working remote since 2018 and it's been amazing to be at home with kids, be able just to drive in places, you know, spend that, that little amounts of time with them. And

What does every man and woman need? I think they need purpose. Well, children are not unlike men and women. That's what they're becoming, they're growing to be. And the more purpose that we can give children, the better. And I think for us, we were kids that had a lot of purpose very, very young, and that was something that was very valuable. Pros and cons, there's some other things that are another conversation we can talk about. But, you know, overall, I think it was a good thing for us. Absolutely. I wanted to ask you about this because I know you're not per se in the movie, you're portrayed, but you didn't act in there with Joel. But you got to work on the music side. How was that recreating that song with Michael W. Smith? Was that, can you speak to the experience? I mean, that's pretty, that's pretty amazing. Well, I will correct you slightly. I am in the movie, but you're just going to have to go find it, all right? Because it is a little bit of a funny situation. And it's an Easter egg. But it is still a role that is worthy to be played. There you go. Anyway, so you can figure it out later on. And then when it comes to, we did an inspired by album for this. So if you kick one into the studio and did a whole album for it. There's only one or two originals. The rest of it's a covers. But they're covers that are, you know, we play, we do a cover that's coming out soon, To Hell with the Devil by Striper. We do a cover on and Lecrae raps on it. It's a crazy version, but it's cool. Awesome. Then we've got songs like Place in This World by Michael W. Smith that, part of the reason it's in the film, but part of the reason why we wanted to re-record it as well is because I think that there are certain great songs that might be more applicable today than they were back when they were released. And I think The Place in This World, you know, you think of the mental health epidemic that is going on really right now, is that's what everybody's trying to figure out. You know, I think young people are struggling because they don't know their place in this world and they're comparing themselves continually. And we all know that, you know, comparison is the thief of all joy, but we don't know how to stop doing it. And so I think a lot of people resonate. So part of the reason why I wanted to do it was because it's like, man, this is just a great song, but it's a song that's needed for now as well. So yeah, it was special. It was cool that I joked with Mike. I was like, man, you know, for us to just hang out a little bit, we have to work together. But in doing that, it's been really cool to just build a little bit more of a friendship with him. And, you know, I mean, he's one of the good guys, you know, a guy that has done it for a long time that has stayed true. And I think it's one thing to accomplish certain things that you set out for in life, but can you do it with great grace and humility, you know, for over 30 years? It's not easy to do, and he's done that and done it well. I think that's amazing. And what I think of when you say that is when he first wrote that song, social media wasn't even a thing. That's right. You could probably still compare your life to other people, but it wasn't as tangible and it wasn't right in your face every single day. And just like our kids, like my kids, you know, had cell phones when they were in grade school. I didn't get a cell phone until I was 23. So it's a much different era. So I'm really excited and, you know, stoked to see what happens with that because I think it's a kind of a nice revisit, revamp the song, cast out that message and, you know, but to the new generation. So I wanted to ask you about that for sure. That's really exciting. No, it was cool. This is so man. One of the things I saw online, and this isn't about the movie at all, but I watched a video while I was kind of scrolling through the trailers and just trying to kind of get to know you guys a little bit better. I watched this video of a concert you were putting on, I think around Christmas, where everything seemed to be delayed and late. And you all were just like, what I loved about it, I'm watching this whole video and I'm like, you're totally calm, cool and collected. Like, it's just all going to come together. Or maybe it's not. But I loved that, like that more than anything else, I think gave me a sense of who you guys are. Do you recall that? Do you have any thoughts on that? You're talking about up in Seattle, you know, in Washington, just a few months ago. Yeah, it was absolutely insane. But we don't show that day. This is what's crazy. Actually that day. So we show up really, really late. We got had issues with getting trucks over a pass and weather stuff out there. And that's the risk that you have when you're traveling in the winter. But that day we show up and we show up at probably three. And that rig is hard to set up. It's a lot of stuff. It's seven, seven trailers. So it's a lot of stuff. It probably should be 10, but we just stacked it in what you fit. So it is what it is. But that day we show up and there was a group of people that were the local crew that were huddled around. And there were these two guys that looked like they were wrestling. And I'm not exaggerating. One guy pulled out a knife and stabbed the other guy. So before we ever even started that video that you watched, there had been like an aggravated assault or attempted murder or something. It was crazy. Wow. So that happened. Then we go into trying to set up that day. Yeah, there was still like blood on the ground. My brother Daniel and I think another one, some other guy I work with, was having to be interviewed about the crime scene. And then we're going to go do a show. I mean, it was, we've never experienced anything like that before, you know? And they got the guy, the guy that got stabbed, he got into surgery. And they think if he hadn't been in surgery, he would have probably died. They saved his life. So it was a little insane. But yeah, man, I mean, when you, when you show up late, you've got things going on, you know, you get your hands dirty. And I think that we knew that the show would happen in some way that night. But starting at 8 30 when the show is meant to start at seven was not ideal or the way that it should be done. But Hey, you know, it's you win some, you lose some. And I don't think we lost and I'm not sure we won that day, but it was a memorable one nonetheless. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed with inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty. More families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times. Many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability. One other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation. Sanctuary metals makes it easy to get started. Text guide to 9 4 8 7 8 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 8 8 8 9 5 8 6 5 7 9 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text guide to 9 4 8 7 8 or call 8 8 8 9 5 8 6 5 7 9. I thought it was super cool, man. I mean, watching the video back. I'm just like, everybody stayed pretty chill. Uh, I mean, everybody was real calm. Everybody was, you know, not, nobody was panicking. It doesn't seem like it, but, um, I'm sure there was more behind the scenes, but No, no, I was gonna say, I would love to say it's the first time that's ever happened to us, but it's not. So I think we're all like been here before, you know, we'll figure it out, you know? Well, it was pretty great, man. I, I mean, I really enjoyed watching that video and watching you all interact and get that done. I just thought it was cool. Um, it spoke volumes, I think, to, uh, what you all actually do. Um, you know, I think you, you all are amazing performers and, um, you know, you put on a great show, but at the same time, you're really there to proclaim the gospel. You're there to show that, you know, Christ is King. And so, uh, I just appreciated the fact that the anxiety level seemed pretty low and that everybody stayed pretty chill. And, uh, like I said, I'm sure there, there were some tense moments, but, um, it was just awesome to watch. I appreciate that, man. Thanks. Yeah. Well, man, I mean, the, the

In a major city, it will absolutely be in that city, yeah. Cool. I was just going to say, maybe we could, you know, encourage our listeners to have their church, get a group of people, a small group or whatever, and go buy tickets ahead of time and go to the theater. You know, we can direct them to the website. Anything else that's out there that we can tell them to go to or to look at, Luke? Yeah, I mean, yeah, unsungmoviehero.com, I think is the website, but absolutely. I mean, man, yeah, group tickets for us is kind of hinge the movie on because, you know, you don't have some of the other metrics that, you know, Hollywood has to kind of be able to pull people in. And so, yeah, I mean, you'd be amazed. If you get 40 people together, I think in some cases, 50 to 100 is buying out a theater. And buying out a theater is not really that expensive. Most people are like, oh, I can't even do it, you know, I wouldn't be able to do it. So in some cases, we've just said, hey, guys, go find a time that you want to buy out a theater and go get, you know, 50 to, you know, 80 of your friends and go to the theater. Those types of things help us out a lot because it shows to the distributors and Lionsgate and those types of things how to scale these things. And some cases, depending on how it sells early, is also how many theaters it gets put in. So there's a lot of games played behind the scenes, if that makes sense. But at the end of the day, having people show up is the most important game to play, which, you know, anything that we can all do together is always helpful. And then obviously the soundtrack for the album, right? You've got that coming out. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, yeah, it comes out April 26th. But in some cases, depending on how the movie does, and in some cases, how the soundtrack does, because it is the soundtrack. So it's one of those weird things of where we're using everything to kind of point back to April 26th and the film. Obviously, we've already released two songs off of the Inspired By, but then there'll be a couple more before it comes out. But yeah, it all still kind of hopefully comes back to hitting that weekend. Nice. Totally. Sorry, I didn't mean to jump in there, James. I just was going to ask one last question I meant to ask this earlier. What does David think, your dad, of this, like kind of seeing his whole story the last 30 years or so, 34 years, whatever it's been since you guys have been here? Yeah, I think he hopes that it, you know, he would probably say, man, hopefully some of these people can make, learn from some of my mistakes, you know, some of the things that I didn't do well. My dad is a good man, and he's been a good father. But what you realize about any parent, there's always room for growth and change. And I think that comes through moments like these types of things. And so for him, I think he would hope that people would really learn from some of the things that he's done and some of the mistakes that he's made. But at the same time, you know, what you see on screen isn't exactly who my father is, but it is exactly what was going on internally. Because it was a scary time. Joel plays a little bit of an, you know, kind of frustrated, I don't want to say depressive man, but he struggles. And my dad says, you know, I don't know if that's who I am outwardly, but I think it's who I was inwardly. And I think that's, it'll be important for people to see, you know, I'll hopefully see a man, you know, in a film portrayed this way. I think that will be encouraging to a lot of people. That's a lot of weight, man. Bringing six plus one in the oven. That's right. That's a lot. That's a big, big, big deal. So I'm certainly glad I know so many people are that he made that decision. We're really glad to have you guys here and thankful for all you guys are doing through King Country, through all the other movies and things that you guys are doing. So yeah, I just excited. So unsungheromovie.com. Anything else that we need to share or tell them to go to see? Man, I think that's, I think that's about it. You know, if you hear this, grab a friend and, and, you know, uh, go, uh, come out and see us, uh, April 26th. Very cool. Well, Luke, thanks for being on, man. This was awesome. Thanks for taking the time and, uh, we really appreciate it and, uh, looking forward to the movie, man. Great to see you guys. Appreciate it. Good to see you guys. Thanks for your time and all the best until next time. Yep. We'll catch everybody on the next episode of thinking Christian. Thanks so much. Thank you guys. Once in a generation, a podcast comes along with the power and eloquence to inspire us all. This show will entertain you while you wait for that one. 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