Did the Biblical Flood Really Happen? An Interview with Dan Biddle, Executive Producer of The Ark and the Darkness

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I'm Dr. James Spencer, and I'm actually here in a hotel room at the National Religious Broadcasters Conference doing this interview with Dr. Dan Biddle. And Dr. Biddle is Executive Producer on a new movie, The Ark and the Darkness. It's being released on Fathom and various other places. And so we'll talk a little bit about that. And he's also President of Genesis Apologetics, which is a youth-focused apologetics ministry and is the co-producer of the movie. And so we're going to talk a little bit about Genesis Apologetics, but we're also going to talk about The Ark and the Darkness. So, Dan, welcome. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to this. It sounds like you've got a great audience, and I'm happy to play a part. Very cool. Well, hey, tell us, why don't we start out, tell us a little bit about your background and about Genesis Apologetics and what you do in your day-to-day life when you're not promoting movies. Yeah, sure. So let's, well, I'll give a quick faith story. So I was saved when I was 11 and kind of had a tribulation-oriented teenage years, like many of us did, kind of left the faith for a while and backslid until I was about 17. And then came back to the Lord and gripped in pretty hard since then. I love the Lord. I've been trying to follow him and do what I can with my life in that way. And married with four kids, God's just blessed me in amazing ways. And then I also have a PhD in the behavioral sciences. I spent about 20 years as a testifying expert on statistics and research in state and federal court cases. Have experience with about 100 of those cases and lived in that world of evidence for a long, long time and never really knew much about what I thought about Genesis. I studied it exhaustively and went to seminary, but I was kind of one of those guys that, well, it could be this, could be a little bit allegory, could be literal, wasn't quite sure. And even had a seminary professor lean to me that way and says, well, look, if you want to trust the Hebrew scholars that wrote the Bible, the days are real days and the genealogies point back to a recent creation. But if you guys believe in science, the earth is millions of years old, so you guys go figure it out. So I kind of lived in that space of ambiguity for a while, but about 12 years ago, I did a hard dive on dinosaurs and geology. And it was that evidence that ultimately led me to become a creationist. So that's the quick, quick journey of what kind of led me here to this place with the movie and everything. OK, and so first, where did you go to seminary? Just out of curiosity. Western Theological Seminary out here in San Jose. So it was a it was a great kind of a middle of the road, not super conservative and definitely not liberal. So, yeah. I think I just lost the audio. It sounds like. I got it. Oh, there we go. Got it. Yeah. Loosen up behind the keyboard. I accidentally hit the mute button there. Oh, sorry, everybody. But yeah, what led you to Genesis Apologetics? Was it this sort of deep dive with on dinosaurs and in Genesis and those kind of things that led you to Genesis Apologetics? Or, you know, how does that? Yeah, that's exactly how I would frame it. So we've all heard the statement, God, break my heart for what breaks yours. And when I became a creationist and realized, oh, my gosh, Genesis is a true history account. It was a life changer for me. It was like being born again again. And it just reignited my faith. And then God kind of opened my eyes to the alternative story and narrative that the world was teaching through evolution in public school. And I went to a back to school night for my son. He was in sixth grade at the time. And they're like, hey, we got to teach evolution here in California for two weeks as part of the state requirements. But don't worry about it. You know, you guys can be Catholic, Christian, Jewish, whatever. We just got to cover the topics. And I'm looking at our bookshelf and it's just filled with all these evolutionary books. And I was reflecting that my son was saying, well, Dad, all the Christians are just sitting in class and they're just taking notes or like being formatted like a hard drive. And no one's questioning it. No one's bringing up a challenge of the Bible or anything. And it made me, it's almost like I had a spiritual awakening in that moment that God opened my eyes about how profoundly damaging this was to the faith of young students. So I actually got sick to my stomach and had to walk home. And I'm like, Lord, I really want to do something about this. And the Lord put me through a time of waiting and studying and preparation and then eventually gave me the commissioning, if you will. I really feel like I was called to open up this ministry. It certainly wasn't my idea, wasn't in my life plans, but the Lord made it very clear through a number of different circumstances that he wanted me to do this. And that led to our ministry and God's really blessed ever since. And so when you talk about, you know, youth apologetics, how, how youth are you? Where do you kind of start? You know, is it elementary through high school? Is it, you know, where do you, where do you span? Yeah, you know, and what, what led us to go there is, is how you reach youth nowadays is way different than how you would reach a 50 year old or a 60 year old or even a 30 year old because they're spending 6.7 hours a day of screen time. And so we, we focus, we have a part of our ministry called the student zone that just goes after K to eight kids with short 15 minute videos that are more teaching oriented. Then we have our debunking evolution series, which is for fifth to 10th graders. Then we have our seven myths program that is for 11th grade all the way up to college. So we have something for all, all ages from, from K to college, but we, we just realized that to reach kids nowadays, you're not going to do it through through books or museums. I think museums are great. We support all of them that are out there, but we're not a brick and mortar ministry. We're trying to go after the students where they are, which is on their phones. Yeah. Very cool. Well, how did you, how did that ultimately then lead to this movie? I got the opportunity. You guys graciously sent me an early copy of it. And so I got the chance to watch, watch the movie and enjoyed it. But it does seem like, is this intended to supplement what you're doing in Genesis apologetics or is this intended for a different sort of audience, you know, an older audience? What were you aiming for with the film? Yeah, we were, I, well, I like to say from a spiritual sense, I was following orders without getting into too many details. I, I really honestly feel there's no other way to say it that I was, I was commissioned and called to, to do this movie. In fact, because to be real honest with you, there was a time about three years ago now where my brother had just passed away. I was recovering from a bad bout with COVID. My mom's cancer had returned and I became an empty nester. And it was during those, that storm of those four things happening that when I was down and out that I really feel like the Lord arranged circumstances and people and, and things that just kind of coalesced into my life that gave me a very clear commissioning to do this movie. So I called Ralph. I had done a little bit of work with him before and said, we really got to do this because Noah's flood, if it happened like we understand that it did, it's a game changer. It's a faith changer. And like when I discovered it was like being born again again, that 18 inch gap between my head and my heart was aligned chiropractically, if you will, so that I was really reignited. And so I just have a strong passion about helping people understand because if the flood is real, then you turn left in your Bible another five chapters and you're at creation just a couple thousand years before. And it's really a it's a monumental shift. It was for me and I trust it will be for other people because you can swallow the whole, the whole theology and foundation of scripture. If you can just get you to the flood and understand profoundly how that really happened, then believing in the rest of it is a little bit easier because if we're living in the end times now, regardless of your views on eschatology, let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed with inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty. More families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And then you're finding that adding

The first pages, he's going to get it right on the last pages. And so I just figured, you know, the flood is this amazing leverage piece. And it's full of mystery and intrigue, so it carries the vehicle of a movie very, very well, because it's amazing and there's dinosaurs involved in the flood and people are dying and the world's getting washed out. So it had a lot of power to explain people that our faith is real and it's historical. Yeah, I think as I watched the movie, I mean, there were some interesting parts for me. Like I mentioned in our, sort of before we started recording, you know, my background is in Old Testament, but this is not the angle I usually come at it from, you know, a lot of the scientific things when I'm referring to there. So, you know, things like the stability of the arc being demonstrated at various points. And, you know, that this thing was stable at, you know, all the way up or on its side and those kind of things. It's just sort of fascinating to listen to some of those ideas. And then obviously the geological data, you know, and how the different strata sort of come together. Now, you know, I've read older books like The Genesis Blood, and I can't remember the author of that one. But I mean, it was a very, it was an old book when I was reading it. Yeah, with more on the team. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so I'm assuming that there's been a lot more exploration of those things and a lot of updating that's happening in the movie. I don't, but I just found some of the science sort of compelling and interesting. And I will say just as the last mention, I would say the distinction between species and families from someone who doesn't do biology, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't have that sort of scientific background necessarily. Understanding those distinctions was actually really helpful. I mean, it just gives you a different language to think through as you're considering how did all these animals get on the ark? What animals are we talking about? How did all that work, you know? Really fascinating stuff. So as you were doing this movie, you know, are you, you know, are you learning new things? Is this sort of old hat for you at this point? Like how was your faith sort of strengthened as you went through this process of building the movie? Yeah, you know, as an evidence guy, as I mentioned, I was an expert in a hundred state and federal court cases for like 20 years. I owned the world of evidence. I understand what a good case is, what a good book of evidence looks like. And so that was the quest that I went on personally because I went to a talk by our current vice president, a guy named Dave Bisbee, that his talk was dinosaurs lived recently. And I went to the talk like 14, 13, 14 years ago. And I'm like, I can't believe this guy thinks this stuff because I was trained like most people, most of us were that dinosaurs were 66 million years old and died in an asteroid and everything. But then when I heard his talk and his book of evidence, it so spun me. I took about 90 days off of work. I bought thousands of dollars worth of DVDs and every book I could get my hands on. I flew up to Canada. I flew to Montana. And about halfway through that research journey, I'm like, oh my gosh, it really happened. You know, I was able to see things that you can never unsee, like the Dan Dinosaur Provincial Park, where you can look out over a 14 mile expanse, literally as far as your eyes can see. And there's not hundreds, not thousands, but tens of thousands of dead dinosaurs buried under 50 feet of mud. And they're buried with mammals and clams and fish and marine life. And you just have to sit there and look at this thing going, how much higher did the water have to be to deposit a 14 mile span of dinosaurs under a hundred feet of mud? You know, and I'm just like, wow, this is, it was an eye-opening experience. And then looking at places like the Morrison Formation, which is a 13 States that are interconnected right in the middle of America, like Montana, Canada, or parts of Canada. 13 States, 600,000 square miles. And it's a 300 foot thick pancake of mud with 52 species of dead dinosaurs mixed with marine life. And again, I'm like, how in the world could that not have been a worldwide flood? And so, yeah, I'm continually learning things about the flood, but here's the amazing part. Every single time I run into a potential snag, but what about this? What about the layers? What about radiometric dating? Every time I run into that and I push through it and read the science on both sides, I still come out a creationist. It's like it keeps proving itself over and over and over again, like that part you mentioned about, what about all the species? That was a big snag for me too. I'm like, yeah, what about all the species? There's like all these, there's a couple million mammal species. Like how are you going to do that on the ark? And then I'm like, oh, look at that. Well, the canis lupus family, the dog kind has 339 breeds of dogs, but they all go back to a wolf kind, you know? And all the dogs today are still inter-fertile, but they're not inter-fertile with raccoons or cats. And what about the horses? Well, you could take a Clydesdale and breed with the miniature horse and there's 300 breeds of horses, but they're all inter-fertile. So that takes care of the horse kind, just a couple of horses. what about chickens? Same thing there. 68 breeds of chickens. They're all inter-fertile or the bear family. You know, even at the biological family level with bears, you have eight species and five of the eight are still inter-fertile. You can take a brown bear or a black bear or a polar bear and they're all, they all can breed. So you start mapping back the tree to its branch level, to the family level. And all you need is about 7,000 animals on the ark and to reproduce all the different species we have today. So it definitely fits. Yeah, that part, I think was probably the most helpful thing to me in the movie. Just because that's one of those where you hear, you know, as an Old Testament guy, people usually ask me these questions and I don't have good answers because it's really a genetics question or a biological question. It's not exactly a textual question. And so it was just really helpful to me. And I, I guess my, you know, as I think about that aspect of it and we're thinking about the genetics of it, I think one of the things I appreciated about the movie is that it's not denying variation within kind. It assumes a variation within kind, like just what you're saying, that as you take it back to this level, not on the species level, so it's not like, you know, apes are becoming humans or what have you, but at the family level, you can have a great deal of variation created through even in-kind, you know, reproduction. Again, it was just, it was one of those where I was watching it and I'm like, oh, this is a really great reframe from what you usually hear and what you usually think. It just gives you a new category to consider and understand. And I thought it was really well laid out in the film. Oh, that, that, that, that's great. Well, we can thank Ralph, our director, for that. But it is eye-opening for me just to think about that. I mean, I was in a debate once with a guy that says, oh, you need 1.8 million species on the ark and it's so therefore it's not feasible. And I'm like, well, what are you thinking? But who in the world ever could think that, you know? You definitely don't need that. And you take, you take any animal and map it back to its original kind. It's a whole field of study off it called barominology or the study of the original kinds. And most experts would pull it to, you know, about 7,000 different animals having to be on there because it's the two of all kinds and seven of the clean kinds. And so, you know, maybe, you know, about 7,000 animals total, but it's amazing. You can take any type of animal and pare it back to its family level. And even dinosaurs, you know, the thousand species go back to 80 at the family level. So same thing there, just all the tree quickly reduces back to its main branches. Do you find, and I'll kind of pivot a little bit, but as you do the movie, you know, and as I watched the movie, what I'm seeing is, and I don't know exactly how to phrase this, so I'll just say it's sort of a revisionist science. And I don't mean that in a negative sense. But it feels like there's a dominant narrative within, it develops in a lot of academic disciplinary communities sort of, but it's definitely a dominant narrative within science that is even silencing non-creationist disciplines that could inform the broader scientific picture. Right. Just like you're saying that study of the, you know, the families and going back to species, like I've never heard of that. Like that is not something you learn about in school. That's, it's a discipline that's sort of evidently sufficiently underground and sort of silenced by these broader narratives. How do you, how do you wrestle with those things as you think about Genesis

spiritual blindness. The Word's very clear that the god of this world has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers so they cannot see the truth. And those who are perishing, the gospel is a stench to them and not a sweet-smelling savor. So I think there's a lot of people who are going to remain under spiritual blindness because it takes, it's really easy just to take the human hearing system with its five different components that have to be bolted together in a certain order or in a certain way. None of these components could have evolved by themselves. It's just really obvious that there is a divine designer that put us here instantly on earth with all of those components in the right arrangement and the right order and they all work together. It should be obvious. Romans 1 says it is, but people want to suppress the truth that they're at that spiritual level. Then on the second level, I think when you pick any field, let's just take geology. Geology does not come with an interpretation. It has to be interpreted through a worldview lens. When you uncover a dinosaur bone that's not heavily permineralized, you find it in the Cretaceous layers and you break it open and you take it to a lab, demineralize it and there's fresh soft tissue inside of it. Our worldview fits that data better than a worldview of millions of years of evolution. And so when you look at that data and you take a triceratops horn and demineralize it, grab some tweezers and stretch it 100% of its original length. That's scientific information. And then you analyze it like, oh my gosh, it there is keratin in there and there's collagen and red blood cells and arteries and all kinds of stuff that's still present in these bones. My worldview interprets that data as these creatures died about 4,000 to 5,000 years ago in a worldwide flood. And even so, isn't it amazing that there's still preservation of this soft tissue? But the other paradigm, the interpretive framework of a 66 million year old rock that should have no organics left, quite frankly, doesn't fit the interpretive of that data. So yeah, it's, um, you just have to realize that science, first of all, is broken up into two fields. You've got historical science, which requires inference and abstraction. Then there's observational science and creationists have no problem with real science, observational science using the scientific method where you've got to observe, test and repeat stuff. But historical science, like when you uncover that bone, it has to be interpreted through a worldview, through a lens. So would you encourage just sort of everyday Christians who are trying to figure this stuff out and looking at evidence and hearing different things, obviously digging deeper is an important part of what we can do. But also, I think just, um, would you encourage them not to bring closure, um, based on just a portion of the evidence? You know what I mean? That scientific exercise is sort of an ongoing thing. And so instead of saying, well, I got taught evolution in school and so I should just stay there. You know, really, you know, as I was watching the film, what I, what I was hearing was, look, just keep looking at the evidence. Like, don't close yourself off to this. Keep looking, just keep digging. So how would you think about that? Well, I, I would approach it like what, like this is, I, I do believe theologically it takes God to know God. I think God has to be the one to reveal truth. Um, I, I, I would regard myself as a relatively bright guy. I love data. I love evidence, but you know what? I didn't figure this stuff out myself. In fact, I was blind for years. I used to see people talk about dinosaurs living with man and in my Christian circles and I would just look at them with this derogatory sense, like, oh, I can't believe those cute little homeschool fundamentalist kids believing this crazy, ridiculous stuff. And this, but the joke was on me. I was this proud, arrogant guy who loved science and I was the one who was blind. So I don't understand now currently the historicity and the science of Genesis because I'm a smart guy or because I figured it out. My key to understanding the truth of Genesis was, was one thing. My, my key was cut in one certain way. It's, it's this. I finally, after 40 some years of being alive on this planet, really, truly humbled myself under God's word. And I'm like, wow, this was God's word inspired and written through man. And God knew what we would understand. When he says things like for in six days, I created the heavens, the earth and the sea and all that is in them. Well, he wanted me to interpret that in the way that he said it because communication has a sender and a receiver. And I know that God, when he said that six days, I created the heavens, the earth, the sea and all that was in them. So I want you guys to work for six and rest for one. He was conveying a message that he wanted to be timelessly interpreted to those that were receiving the message. And so when I humbled myself under that and humbled myself under the Genesis five and 10 narrative and Luke chapter three, which clearly maps back 4,000 years of history from Jesus back to Adam, who was quote, the son of God, not the son of Neanderthals. You know, for me, it was, I think that was a ticket that God wanted me to have before he showed me the evidence. So when I submitted under humbly as a. Let me ask you a serious question. 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Kyle under the authority of scripture, it was only then that I began to understand the truth about earth history. So it was God's word first, evidence second. Okay, that's really helpful. Well, as people go and watch the movie, and I would encourage people to go and watch the movie. I really did get a lot out of it. So I was very pleased to have the showing before we had the interview and and understand a little bit more of the approach and then see some of the evidence. So I would have, we could have a little bit more of an intelligible conversation. Um, you know, there, there are still things, and this is what I find interesting. You know, I mentioned I'm working on an article for Christianity.com on the Nephilim. I don't know of anything. Maybe you do. And this is a little bit off topic, I suppose. But you know, the things through the flood, obviously the Nephilim factor there in Genesis six, they're sort of an interesting topic, right? They tend to bring a lot of attention despite the relative sparsity with which they occur in scripture. You know, only two times explicitly and maybe a few others, you know, sort of by, you know, by inference. But how does some of the evidence accord to something like that? Do you see any archaeological or geological or, you know, other things that would sort of say, yeah, here were these sort of odd humans here and uh and you know, maybe these were the Nephilim. Is there anything there like that? Sure, that, that's a great question. So let's start with what we know for sure. And what we know for sure is that the pre-flood world would be a more horrifying place than you and I can imagine. I, I know that for certainty. With all my studies, looking at the dinosaurs, the Nephilim, the whole thing, number one, it's more scary than you and I could, could even think of. And number two, I honestly think had we known what God really meant by all of the thoughts of man's hearts were evil continually and therefore he sent the flood. I think if we could go back and see it like that, I think we would agree with his judgment. I think that's the second thing that I've learned for sure. It's like, hey God, this place is beyond recovery. Flush it. Push the reset button, please, God, with your mercy, just take eight of us and put us on the ark and push the, wash the flush, the flush button on the rest of what's happening on this world. And so I believe firmly that, that God did that. So when it comes to that topic, uh, specifically, um, I'm a scripture guy. I'm a presuppositional apologist and I, I believe what the Bible talks about that. And I think that there are about 22 passages that talk about the Nephilim or giants, only two specifically on Nephilim where those words are used, but about 20 that talk about the giants. And so I would believe that God has given us enough of what he wants us to know about the topic and scripture alone. And so that's where I land. Um, so when I read extra biblical

Interesting insight, a perspective. When I hear about all of the, there's a lot of people that I want to go crazy and all the Nephilim stuff and archaeology stuff in North America and other places. And we found these giant bones and what about this and that? There's a lot of skeptical stuff out there on YouTube and Google that our modern culture is running crazy with. And honestly, I don't need any of that stuff. For me, it could be true or not true, and it's not going to shift my views because that whole Nephilim thing with the sons of God, the bene Elohim. I know what happened with all that. God's given me enough in his scripture. I'm very firm in my beliefs about that. But you'll notice in the movie, we kind of dodged that subject in some regards. Some of our earlier editions had it included, but I don't want the movie necessarily to focus on that because it's a little bit much sometimes for your novice new believer to jump in and, what are you talking about giants and Nephilim and these hybrids? What's going on with that? We wanted the movie to really focus on the ABCs of the flood and faith and Christianity. And we are going to do a movie on the Nephilim that's going to come out in a few months. And we're going to take a pretty reasonable standpoint on it because there's a lot out there on it. But I'm pretty convinced that it happened and it's real. And it's a lot for people to take in. Well, my tendency is to agree with you on that. I mean, I think, you know, we have to let the Bible sort of lead in that conversation. And so I think as I was watching the film, I was actually glad you left it out because honestly, I think everything, any science that I've read on it is a little bit more specious than what you present for the flood. And so when you're thinking about the different evidences, it seems to me that a stronger scientific case can be built for a large geological event like the flood as opposed to a more specific reference, you know, to these people back here. I think as you get smaller and smaller, it's almost like, you know, let's develop some evidence as to what color Abraham's hair was. You're like, well, that's a pretty minute detail. It's gonna be difficult, I think, for us to uncover, you know, evidences that are really going to give a surety about what color Abraham's hair was. And I think that's very similar with the Nephilim, whereas your focus in the movie, which again is what I appreciated, it's like, you're showing, here's all of this evidence that we can bring to bear on this giant event that happened on the earth. And it's very clear and it's not speculative and sure, it's scientific and, you know, there's an interpretation and the worldview involved and all that kind of good stuff. There's an awful lot of evidence. Wow. Yeah, that's a great point. Tim Chafee with Answers in Genesis is one of the experts that's on our movie. And I agree with him 100% on the Nephilim topic. He's got the only book out there that we refer people to on it. And he did give some testimony in our movie and in the film, the footage that we left on the cutting room floor, we edited it out a little bit again because it's because of the reasons that we talked about. But God does give those couple reasons in Genesis. The reasons for the flood included the Nephilim, but it also included a judgment on mankind because the thoughts of man's heart were evil continually. So I think that's enough to focus on right there. But yeah, Tim does a great work on the Nephilim. It's the only book I think it's called The Sons of God that he's published that is our only go-to on that topic. So because there's a lot of chatter out there about that topic. If you wanna get famous on YouTube, throw a video out there on the Nephilim like everybody else. So, but we're gonna do that in a couple months, but we're gonna do it in a way that I love how you frame it. We're gonna let the Bible lead on the topic. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Well, any last thoughts on the movie? I mean, talk a little bit about release dates and where people can find it, where people can go to see it, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, sure. So it's gonna be released in three or four stages. The first one is a theatrical. Right now we're in 893 theaters around the nation, which I'm told by Fathom is a pretty strong pull. There's other films that don't get in as many theaters. So we're really excited about that. 893 theaters. You can just go to noasflood.com. So not the apostrophe S, just but plural. So noasflood.com to get tickets on theaters. New Year's gonna be a two-day Fathom release on March 20th and 21st. Then 30 days after that, we're gonna make it available on DVD. There's over 30 cable platforms that are gonna put it on. And then after that, we're gonna go free on YouTube. And that's a little controversial too, because a lot of our providers and distribution platforms are like, what? What are you doing? I'm like, yep, we're gonna go out in 20 languages and it's going to be free on YouTube after we do the theatrical, after the cable release. Because this truth is not, we can't corner it. This is God's truth. We did a very fair balance treatment on this. This is God's truth and it's gonna go crazy. And we want it to be free and we want it to be widely distributed. Our currency for this movie is not cash, it's views. And that's what we're going after. We're going after view counts. Well, I would just encourage folks to go see it. If you've got a Fathom theater near you and the movie comes out near you, go see it. Catch it on DVD, support the movie, definitely view the movie. And we'll have the link to the website in the show notes. So if you want to find out more about the movie, you can go there. And Dan, I just really appreciate the effort you put out. I mean, I've done a little bit of video production and, you know, fun stuff like that. We've actually looked at different movie processes and, you know, I've been through the script writing phase. So I know how much work goes into actually getting it up and running and launched. And it is a fantastic work and it's a fantastic effort. And so I'm just grateful that you responded to God's prompting to do this, despite what I am sure was a very difficult, though enriching task. And so thanks very much for doing it. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much. It was my idea, but Ralph Strom, our director, put the blood, sweat and tears into producing it. So he did more work than I did. I'll put it that way. He was 16 hours a day for about two years making this thing come out. So amazing dedication. And I really love what he came up with. I think some of the photorealistic visuals in this movie are just breathtaking. So and it's worth seeing. It's got a high production value and folks, you won't be disappointed if you go see the movie. So, yeah, but thanks, Dan, for being on the podcast. And we, like I said, look for the for the film to come out. We'll put the link to the website in the show notes and go check this film out. Don't wait for it to come out free on YouTube. Go and support this movie, share it with your friends, take your friends, make it a conversation piece. Be a great way to talk through the gospel, talk through proclaiming Jesus Christ to folks just through the context of the flood and the introduction of a lot of new scientific evidence that I think will actually be compelling for folks who are open to hearing it. So just encourage you to go see it. And Dan, thanks for being here once again. Really appreciate it. And we'll catch everybody on the next episode. Yeah, this was fun. Thanks very much. God bless. All right. Take care. I just want to take a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more. Many of us feel hurried. Did you know that being in a hurry is costing us more than we realize? Hi, I'm Jem Fadling, co-host of Unhurried Living, where my husband, Alan, and I help people learn to live and lead from fullness rather than on empty. We provide resources and training to teach you healthy patterns for rest, work, and spiritual connection. With more than 25 years of experience at the intersection of spiritual formation and leadership development, Unhurried Living seeks to inspire others to rest deeper, live fuller, and lead better. Join us each week as we continue to have conversations about leadership, soul care, the power of prayer, and much more. You can find Unhurried Living at lifeaudio.com and on your favorite podcasting app.