How Does God Lead Us? A Conversation with Dan Bremnes

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need Thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I am joined today by my co-host, Nate Guarantano, and Dan Bremness. Dan and Nate have known each other for a number of years, and so Nate, why don't you introduce Dan to our audience? Yeah, so this is my buddy Dan. He's obviously one of my favorite dudes in the industry. I've been listening to his music for a long time, but when you meet Dan as a fan or backstage or whatever, you just get immediately like there's something special about this dude. He's an awesome guy, awesome family guy, world traveler, super creative. So we're really honored to have you on the show, Dan. Thanks, man. What an intro. Yeah, so just tell us a little bit about, you know, I think, getting to know you just a little bit. Like, what was your faith journey? How did you get into music, you know, and where are you at now? Just kind of life story it in a relatively short amount of time. Here we go. Two hours and counting. I grew up in Canada, a very small town called Salmon Arm, British Columbia. No one's ever heard of it unless you're from there. It's beautiful. It was an amazing place to grow up. I grew up as a pastor's kid and, you know, about seven years old, said a prayer and talked to God for the first time. It didn't radically change my life. You know, it was just sort of one of those prayers, like a first introduction. And I, my faith journey was, it's probably a little different than most people. I didn't, I just was kind of always surrounded by church, church people, church music, spiritual things. And when you grow up in that, when you're born into it, it's just all you know. Right. So for me, it was, my journey was so different, you know, from, from somebody that comes, say, like, darkness to light. I was born into it if we want to call it the light, you know. So it, it was almost, it was in some ways harder for me in my journey to God. You know, somebody told me once, the longest journey a Christian takes is about 12 inches, you know, from here into here, because you grow up in it and you know everything and you learn everything and it's head knowledge. And then it just doesn't, it doesn't click until it reaches the heart. So, you know, I kind of went on with my life. I got really into music at a young age and skateboarding and punk rock and had like played drums, you know, I played drums for, for worship bands and rock bands. And I ended up traveling all over the world as a drummer for worship artists and R&B artists. And then I had a, I had a punk rock band in school and I started recording some music of my own. Sorry, in school, when I say, like in high school and was sort of like wondering if I could do anything with music. And I ended up, you know, putting my music into a competition to see if I could win. And I won the opportunity to play at the band's Warped Tour in Calgary, Alberta, which was a few hours away from me. And so, and then I was kind of like, well, maybe, maybe I could do something in music, you know, specifically be a punk rock icon. And I did that for a while and it was fun. But, you know, I graduated high school and I didn't really have a lot of confidence, didn't really know what I was doing. I knew I wanted to do something in music. I liked business. I liked, you know, the idea of of just getting out there and living a story, I guess. So when I was 18, 17 or 18, I graduated and I didn't want to go to college or university. I was interested again in travel. I'd never really been anywhere. So my sister went to YWAM. So I decided that sounds cool. She had a fun time and I was working in carpentry at the time, building homes. And I was like, hey, dad, I'm, you know, I want to I want to do this thing. And they're like, that's awesome. We support you. So within two weeks, I signed up and I went to Australia and I did a I did YWAM, which was like a five month like youth missions thing where you you like do it with a bunch of other youth and you learn about the Bible. You learn about spirituality. You learn about yourself. Ours was a surfing school. So we surfed every day and I got destroyed by the waves, almost lost my life a few times. I remember once I went out on a just when I had learned how to get up and surf and I had no idea the power of water. And I remember I went out on a 14 foot wave, which for some people is normal. I literally almost died, barely make it out alive, kept surfing, kept doing that thing that YWAM probably changed my life, I'd say, you know, that there's I look back at that moment and that was the moment where, like, everything kind of came into focus. And I I knew that I wanted to do music. I changed how I wanted to do music. And it became more of like missional at that moment. You know, like I can reach people through music. I can do this for a bigger purpose than just being a rock star. And, you know, fast forward, I came back from that. I became a youth pastor, which is random. I never planned on doing that. I did that for four years. I ended up meeting my wife to be there and we got married 16 years ago. I still didn't do music for like seven years after that or six years. I ran a small construction company and then 2008 happened, 2009. And I lost all my work overnight. And it was like this moment where I think I had some math wrong there. We were married for for like three years before I really pursued music. But yeah, we lost everything overnight and it was this moment of like, well, time is standing still right now, you know, and when you have a paycheck and when it's working, you don't stop. You just stay on the treadmill. You stay in the loop. And I have to say, as hard as that time was, it completely changed the course of my life. And you know how you can be on an airplane and you're heading towards a certain place. And even if it changes by one degree, you could end up in a completely different city or continent. And that's what happened in my life. And I realized if there was any time I was going to, you know, dig down deep and try this, it was now. So that that led me down the path of like, OK, I'm going to finish writing my songs. I'm going to record them and I'm going to get out there and just see what's what happens. And that turned into a journey that led me here today. I released an album. I toured all around Canada, did some touring in Australia and New Zealand, and I ended up making a connection with a producer in Nashville named Ed Cash. And he really helped me out. He produced some of my music and then he shared my music with some people at some record labels. And they they said, like it turned into a record deal. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. And that was in 2014. We moved to Nashville and we've been here ever since. That's amazing. I mean, that that 2008-2009 timeframe. I mean, I remember that my wife and I had just sold our first house after the right before the big bust. Yeah. So it was a hard time for a lot of people. You know, obviously, you'd I assume you, you know, when you say you weren't doing music, you weren't pursuing music as a profession, but were you still, you know, you were still active in it? Were you still, you know, just dabbling or? I was sitting there dreaming, you know, sitting there dreaming doesn't do do much. You know, music is an all consuming thing. If you want to do it, you can't just like kind of half do it. So what I ended up, yeah, I was just writing songs and slowly, very slowly taking steps. I lacked a lot of confidence and I I just had a lot

That's awesome. What was it like, Dan, if you could just, for anyone that's listening to this, like taking that big leap, because I'm sure that was kind of scary or, you know, worrisome to like leave everything you knew and go to a place called Nashville that, you know, you'd never really had been yet. Yeah, we had just had our first child. We have two kids now. And Eli, our firstborn, he was like two months old at the time. It wasn't hard. You know, we wanted to do it. We and I had already had a record deal by that time. I've been flying back and forth. So it wasn't like I was just jumping and saying, Hey, let's move to another country and hope it works out. Some people might think that, but, you know, there was a lot of foundational things under it. So it got to the point where I was like, okay, this makes sense as the next move. There was still a lot of uncertainty and we were still pretty broke. You know, we didn't really have much to show and we were living month to month hand to mouth. So, but it just, it felt like the best thing to do. The weird thing is around that time I had some offers for some great jobs, like working at a church as a worship pastor, getting paid great money. And I remember sitting down and praying about it and talking to my wife, Brittany, about it. And it's like, no, let's take, let's take the narrow road. Let's take the more uncertain one. I'm so glad we did. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, those are, those are tough choices. Talk to me a little bit, you know, you mentioned, so you went to YWAM, you have this sort of revelation about uh reorientation of the way you're thinking about music and making it more missional. How has that sort of manifested itself as you've gone through the rest of your career? How do you think about music from a missional or biblical theological perspective at this point? Um, and, and what's your sort of process for coding that into your songs? I think when I first started, it's evolved. When I first started, I was doing more like worship leaning music. And because it's, it was just the, there was the phase I was in. I was leading a lot of worship at church. And when I was at YWAM, my, my leader was like, Hey, why don't you lead us in worship? And, and I have to say, like, that was what kind of changed my life. I remember like, even before all of, like during that time, I would like put my headphones on and I'd listen to like delirious or something, you know? And I would, I can't explain it other than like, it's the, the most, like, it's the closest I could say I've been to, to God, you know, it brought me to a different place and it changed my life. So I wanted that for other people. And, and it very much started in that way. And it was all very worship focused. And for years and years and years, that's all I did. And then it sort of evolved. And, um, I started wanting to reach all sorts of people. And, uh, I think it's funny because I had a lot of friends that were also like, you know, had a faith story, but they didn't go into worship music or Christian music. And I, I think that's great because, you know, some people are called to the church or, you know, to speak to people of faith and some people are called to speak outside of that. And as time went on, I, I found myself kind of with a foot in both worlds. I started, um, getting missional in a different way. So I kind of feel like there's two people I want to talk to and that I can relate with. One is like the church kid like me that, you know, grew up in it and wants to have a connection with God, but is confused and, you know, said the salvation prayer 7,000 times at every altar call at every Bible camp, at every youth group and nothing changes because it's not about that prayer. It's when I look actually try and mark the moment. I can't. Can you, can any of us mark the moment when we fell in love with our spouse or whoever, our girlfriend, whatever? I think it's not much different with God. Like it's, it is a, it's a relationship and how can you pinpoint it to a prayer or a moment? Nothing against the people that have had that, but for me, it wasn't that. So I feel like I'm speaking to the, the kid that grew up in church that, that just doesn't know God that wants to. And then, and then as my career went on, I fly a lot and sitting next to people and that have no idea about Christian music and would, would never listen to my music because it isn't something, it's not their language. So I started wanting to write music that could speak to them also. Something that wasn't like, Hey, like this is what you should do or believe. Um, but more, more just something um that anybody could listen to, but might make them say like, Hey, this is really positive. Um, I want to know more about this story. I want to know more about this guy, you know, or I'm on, maybe they stumble on a, on a song that speaks to them on a spiritual level and, and um they're invited into a different door that they never thought they'd go through. So is your new album Into the Wild, is it more oriented toward that latter group or do you mix on the albums? Like how does that work? Yeah, it's a bit of a hybrid. Okay. Yeah. Like some songs are just worshipful, um, spiritual, uh, and some songs are about my marriage or, you know, the difficulties of life or into the wild, like just taking risks and dreaming big dreams. And, and um they're not explicitly um biblical or spiritual, but I believe they kind of are, you know, the, the roots or the, the underlying themes to me are very spiritual. Yeah. It's interesting to hear you talk about and my wife grew up Christian. Um, she had a very similar experience to you. I had the opposite. I was the, uh, lost kid who got saved in college and um but I, I would resonate with what you said because I, while I could sort of, I know the moment when I, you know, sort of walked through the four spiritual laws and, and prayed the, prayed the prayer, right? I know when that happened, but I would say that my experience wasn't uh a single moment life change. It was a growth and commitment and love for Jesus as I walked, you know, and, and went through a lot of challenges and struggles even after I would have said I was quote unquote saved. And so I, I resonate with the way you frame that. I think it's, um, it, it's, it's amazing to hear that you sort of reconnected or found that initial connection maybe with God through worship. Um, and so talk a little bit more about that, maybe. Like, how did your, you know, I've had some experience with YWAM type groups, and so I'm just kind of interested to hear about that period in your life. And why do you think that was so formative? Was it the, the distance from home? Was it the, you know, was there a level of autonomy there? Like what, what, what was it about that mix of factors that you really feel like, hey, God reached me at this moment? Yeah, um, the, the whole process started a little bit before I went to YWAM, like the, the, like just music and worship really like grabbing me. And I think that's what led me to do this missional thing in Australia. And then when I was there, I think it very much was like just getting away from everything, you know? And I think um this can work for and against us as human beings, but when we're in our, when everything's familiar around us, we tend to get in our habits and in our cycle and we're, we cannot, we cannot even come close to be objective about our life and our habits and our, the way that we're doing things and what we're doing and how we're doing it. So even when, when my wife and I get away for a weekend, we come back with perspective and I, I could even like um go down the road to someone else's house and have a conversation and get some perspective. Do you know what I mean? But going to Australia was on a, on a large scale. And I think I, it kind of like um brought me down to zero. It like, I didn't have any connections that any support that I relied on from around home and it, it brought me to a really vulnerable place and it was really hard at first. It was almost like I was rebuilding my life. I had nothing to, nothing familiar to be there and people didn't know anything about me and didn't have to treat me any certain way, you know? Um, so it, it was that kind of vulnerable place that it really, I think, shaped me, set me up to be shaped for, for years, really. Uh, and I know people who've had terrible YWAM experiences. Let me ask you a serious question. 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And people have had terrible church experiences, and it just, for me, though, it was the journey that I knew I needed to go on, and it was the place I was being pulled towards, and I think that's I think that's what God does with us, and I think we lie to ourselves when we do anything different, you know. Something can look good. It's like, oh, that's what I should do, but good doesn't mean right, you know. Like, good is the enemy of the best, and I think, yeah, I'm not sure if I answered your question. I'm gonna stop rambling. No, you did it. I mean, I think that's kind of what I was wondering, how much that sort of vulnerability that you're describing really played into it, because even when you were saying, you know, we do kind of get caught in those ruts and that sort of, we end up with a default setting. Yeah. Maybe the easiest way to say it. We end up with a default setting until we can actually be disrupted. I think sometimes it's difficult for us to see God move because everything feels like it's on autopilot. He becomes, we sort of push him to the margins of our lives and assume that life is just gonna continue the way it's continuing, and the disruptions remind us that, oh, this isn't quite as sure as I thought it was, you know. Yeah. One of the interesting thing is, as you were talking, like, I think we all need those interruptions from time to time, whether it's a YWAM or whether it's a weekend away or a conference, but the most important thing is that we come back, right? It's tempting to want to live in that space of, like, I feel, I've left, I've regrown, this is my new safe space. This is, and it becomes the cycle, right? And I've seen people get caught in that. I've felt myself get caught in that, and I just don't think that that's the way that God has intended it. Because people want to keep chasing it and, like, trying to get the next thing that's better, just a little bit better than that. It's funny, Dan, when I hear you say that, I actually, I didn't know that you did YWAM. I did YWAM in Australia as well, and we've never talked about that, but I did it for skateboarding, and I was in the Gold Coast in Brisbane, where King Country is from. What year? I was there in 2000, 99 and 2000, like, two different times. I was there 2001. That is crazy. I didn't have a double overhead surf experience, but I definitely... I was minutes from Brisbane. Oh, that's awesome. I love the Gold Coast. I want to take my family back there, but I have to say, as, you know, a friend of mine, you've always encouraged and inspired me in many ways, but one way, and I've said this to my wife, you always make me want to take risks, kind of go out and try something different, do something different, get outside of my comfort zone. I think James kind of touched on that, but just getting that different perspective. What has been another example of that? Like, I don't know if you want to talk about when you did that music video, how crazy that was when you went to all the different places and you and John just in a, I don't know, what was that, like seven days, nine days, something like that? Yes, it was eight days, seven countries around the world. Still probably the funnest thing I've ever done. It's insane. It sounds insane, but it was milder than some tours I've been on. So it was so fun. It was so fun. Yeah, and I think, yeah, that was a big moment for me. Again, sometimes we have ideas, but we lack the confidence to step out and take the risk. So I'll never forget, I was on tour with Hawk Nelson and 10th Avenue North and John, who ended up filming the video, Sings for Hawk Nelson, he was just getting into making music videos. And I was like, why don't we do something crazy? Like, why don't we go to China or India? I was just like, let's just go somewhere crazy. And he's like, yeah. And then I was like, what if we went around the world in like a week? Because both of our wives were pregnant. We didn't have much time. And he's like, let's do it. And then I remember I went to bed that night and I woke up the next morning and my mind started telling me all the things that were gonna go wrong. And then I started looking on the internet, like, what's winter like in Egypt? And it showed pictures of the pyramids with snow. And I was like, oh, this is a terrible idea. We can't do this. This is gonna be a disaster. And then I was like, oh, a flight's gonna get canceled or it's gonna be too expensive. And it's incredible how our mind can work against us. The very thing that's meant to protect us can hold us back. And I talked to John. I was like, I don't know, man. Maybe it's not a good idea. And he's like, no, let's do it. And I was like, OK, let's do it. And none of the fears I had came true. It was one of the smoothest trips of my life. We did have one little hiccup where we didn't know if we were gonna get home from India, but it got figured out. And I wonder how many times people are right there on the edge of that and they don't get that brilliant lifetime experience like you have. I've heard you share this before. We've talked about it. You're sharing it now. If you would have stayed in your bed that day after those internet searches, that wouldn't have happened. I just wonder how many times that happens to people. And I know it's happened to all of us. But, you know, the whole faith, not fear thing. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. I just wanted to throw that in there. No, that's pretty much it. I think you nailed it on the head. I think a lot of us have dreams and ideas and visions and we stop before we even start. Totally. I mean, you've obviously had some career shifts, some that were sort of thrust upon you. And then, you know, you've had, you know, with the construction in 2008, 2009, moving into music, that have been good things. I would say, you know, as somebody who's done a career shift relatively recently, it's tough, I think, to leave things behind. But, you know, I'm five years away from, so I did most of my career in higher education. And at this point, that's five years behind me. And I will say, I don't really even notice that I'm out of higher ed anymore. Like, I love what I'm doing so much more now. And I think that all of the trepidation, just like you were saying, you know, at some point you just sit around and you're like, oh my gosh, look at all the things that could go wrong. And you have to be able to get past those in order to really take a risk that maybe it'll have a really great payoff for you. Maybe you'll make another change down the road. But I think if we're not open to some of those things, we end up really limiting God and what he can do in our lives. Oddly enough, I'm not even sure you can really talk about limiting God, but we certainly close ourselves off to some of the opportunities that I think he'd like to provide for us. I couldn't agree more. I think it's easy for us. We should never mistake the word faith for safety or comfort. Those, those two do not belong there. Faith usually, usually has a lot of uncertainty and sometimes pain and, and, you know, and fear attached to it. Like we, faith is going to move us way beyond our comfort zone. And when you read the Bible, you won't find a single safe story in there. There's no stories of people sitting on their couch and waiting for something to happen. Yep. Yep. Faith is dead without works, right? Yeah. It's got to take action. No, I love that, man. That's so inspiring. So what's next, Dan? What do you think? Like, what, what are you looking at on the horizon now besides this new album coming out? Like, where do you see yourself the next couple of years? Like what's, what's next for, for the music side? And when does the new album come out? I saw it on pre-order, but do you know officially when it's going to come out? Oh, I, I am, do I have something on pre-order? I might. Yeah. I saw it on your website. It was Into the Wild is on pre-order. Oh, that's a really old post. Into the Wild is out. It's been out for over a year. There you go. Okay. But, um, yeah, good old websites, right? Yeah, exactly. I know that. I'm actually writing a bunch of new music right now and just trying to dig down and see what kind of things to talk about. And a lot of it's just what we're talking about right now. What does it mean to, to be a human being really and, and wrestle with life, wrestle with faith, wrestle with God. Those are a lot of the themes that I'm thinking about and trying to write about. I think probably about halfway there and, uh, I don't really know what's next. Like I remember years ago, I, I had, I was in the middle of a tour and I was in the

as artists can tend to get really into numbers. It's what's happening to your heart? Are you becoming a better person? What are you learning about faith and what are you learning about the struggle and how much empathy are you learning to have for those around you? Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And then you're finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary metals makes it easy to get started. Text guide to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text guide to 94878 or call 888-958-6579 That's sort of been my mantra, I guess, is I have no clue how long I get to do this for. I guess as long as people will listen, as long as the doors keep opening. But I'm in the same boat as everyone else. You know, I have no idea what the future holds, but, you know, I hope I get to do it a little longer. Let me ask you just one kind of final question that's on my mind. So I do a lot of writing, not music. I'm not musically inclined at all. Maybe tapping my foot to a beat, but occasionally that's even too complicated. So I'm definitely not your rhythm section. But I do a fair amount of writing. And what I find is that in order to write well, I almost have to take these breaks and just read a lot. I have to be constantly, you know, sort of putting fuel in the engine in order for me to have new thoughts and new ideas and to be creative. So I'm wondering, is that a similar process that you go through? I mean, you're releasing an album, you know, do you just immediately go back in and start writing new things or do you, do you take time to listen to other music, to read other books? You know, when you talk about what does it mean to be human? I mean, that's an area I've been kind of playing around with a lot lately with the AI revolution and all that kind of fun stuff. And so reading a lot of theological anthropology, reading a lot of, you know, different things. Is that similar to the process you go through sort of for your creative work or, or is it different? No, I think it's very much the same. I probably don't do as good of a job at it as finding and listening to new music, but I, I do love to like pick apart songs that I love and, hey, like what makes this special? And usually it's more simple, you know, the best songs and the best concepts that we all love are usually pretty simple and I tend to overcomplicate and, and stuff too many words into things. And so I like to look at other artists and yeah, read, I love reading. I read every day. And I think that really helps fuel the creativity. And the thing is that we're all in, like kind of what you're saying is we're all inspired by each other. And that's the fun part about it. Like, you know, we can, we can really like fall in love with a piece of art or a piece of writing and it can inspire us to do something of our own. Getting that different perspective too, I think helps. You've always inspired me since I've met you to, to travel more because literally if you're not following him, James, or if anyone's not following Dan, you should just because he's really genuine and real in that regard. Like, oh, he's in Germany today. Oh, we're in Greece. Like you just never know where Dan's going to be because he still has that mentality that, you know, the thing you and John did with that seven figure around the world. Like you just never know where Dan's going to be. It's almost like, where's Waldo? Where's Dan? I might be at your doorstep, right? Yeah, exactly. You might be at my driveway sitting around a fire pit, but yeah, but no, I, I love that. I think that's, that's really inspired me. But I think if you didn't travel as much and get outside of East Nashville or whatever, you know, Franklin, whatever it is, you wouldn't have that. I think what he's talking about him reading, maybe some of that is travel for you. Would you agree or, or cooking? I haven't really thought about that, but yeah, big time. I learn so much. I think we all learn so much when we see people do things a different way. And travel is definitely the thing that, that keeps me inspired. Yeah, I would, I would agree. Yeah, I mean, I get to travel a fair amount too. And one of the things that I've started to lament a bit when I go to a different city is that all of them start to look the same. And so I find myself sort of almost refusing to go to chain restaurants in other cities, you know, refusing to go to shopping malls in other cities, you know, searching out like the, maybe the more local museum if I'm going to go visit somewhere because I think it's, what I've found is it's very simple just to go back in even when I'm traveling, go back into default mode. Right. It's like, oh, I know what the food's like at this restaurant. I'll just eat there. Or, you know, and, and you start to get that sort of rote thing. I think one of my favorite things to do is go to art galleries. Nice. I love to go to art galleries when I'm out visiting other cities because you always see something different. Um, but I, I, yeah, I guess that's a, one of those sort of lamentable things that I see us doing right now is we're sort of becoming franchised city to city, place to place. And, uh, searching out those areas that are really, truly unique to a place, I think has been inspiring to me as I've gotten to travel. Love that. Yeah, same. Yeah. It's, um, you always have to take a little bit of a risk to find something new, but, uh, and it can go both ways. You can really, uh, you can really have a really bad burger or whatever it is. Right. That's right. You know, uh, but new experiences definitely keep your mind fresh. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's close this out and I just, I'll ask you is since, um, you know, kind of closing out this part of the conversation, but what, what's the last thing you read that's been really inspiring for you that you, you know, it's really kind of gnawed on your brain a little bit. Oh, that's a, that's a good one. I actually might have one on my phone. I, uh, I tend to read a lot of quotes and I actually read something this morning that made me think. Uh, it sounds like I was prepared for this, but I wasn't. This, this quote got me, good questions outrank easy answers. Nice. Yeah. Made me think a lot. And there's a lot of tension. I mean, there's probably always a lot of tension, but it feels like there's a lot more tension right now around a lot of different things that are happening in our world. And, um, it's easy just to feel like you have the answers, but, uh, I think it's important to ask more questions than, than go to your default easy answer. Yeah. Staying curious. I mean, that's sort of been a, almost a theme of this entire conversation. Staying curious, asking good questions, you know, not, uh, not getting so set in our ways that we can't see what God is doing in new and fresh ways. So, well, this has been fantastic. Um, thanks Dan for coming on and, and just chatting with us. Um, and your album is already out into the wild, so I can't say that, but, uh, everybody, if you're watching, go out and, uh, and check out, um, Into the Wild. You can find more information at danbremness.com and, uh, and find all the music, find all the links to the different videos and all that kind of good stuff. Is there anywhere else, uh, you want to route people, Dan? Well, since my website seems to be out of date, I'd recommend other places. Uh, I talk a lot on Instagram and those places. So that's probably the freshest. Yeah, he's a great follow on Instagram. I would highly recommend that and you could go back and see the archive videos of some of those trips and things like that too. Uh, but it's, it's always fun. I always check out and see what Dan's doing cause you never know where he's going to be at. Very cool. Yeah. Hey, thanks everybody for listening. We'll meet you back here for the next episode of Thinking Christian. I just want to take a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more. There's no better way to start your day than spending time in God's word and in prayer. Don't know where to start? We