Thinking about Evangelizing and Discipling Men: A Conversation with Erin Alexandrino

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful, theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. Today, we are joined with a new friend. We're just meeting today. This is the first time we've had opportunity to really talk. And so I'm excited to have as a guest Aaron Alejandrino. His website is AaronAlejandrino.com. And he talks about high-value manhood. And he's got this great relationship guide for men that you can download from his website. We'll put all that stuff in the show notes. But we're excited to have him here to talk about faith and fitness and family and a host of other topics, I'm sure. So, Aaron, welcome. Tell us a little bit about yourself, man. Tell us a little bit about your journey with Jesus Christ. Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. As we're just talking about on the show beforehand is this, I love connecting with other men that are doing God's work. I think we live in a time now where we need more bold Christians that are not only speaking about belief, but really being the examples and being the leaders and the lighthouses. So thank you and thank you to all the listeners that are part of the mission of building better men. Long story short, I'm a relatively new Christian. So about three years on this side of the cross. Most of my life, I had a strong resistance to having a relationship with God. And it was based in a formula that I didn't have growing up. So I was raised by a single mom, didn't have a father figure growing up. And I believe that God gives us the template from father to son to teach us about our father in heaven and the sonship. And because I didn't have that, I really struggled with surrendering, submitting, following leadership. I was constantly rebelling, made a lot of bad decisions in my twenties. And right around my 30th year, I started to pull my head out of my butt and I started to have the awakening. And in the last decade, I have been actively pursuing personal development, looking in every single direction for a great model of masculinity because I lacked it for so long. Wanted me in some amazing directions. I've been able to build men's groups out in California. I teamed up with some really, really powerful dudes that are doing leadership development, personal development for men, men's coaching. I've been in a personal training, gym ownership, and this whole process the whole time. I've been asking the question of who's the perfect model and mentor of masculinity. And so that's been really the question in my heart for the last decade. Three years ago, after a lot of pursuit, a lot of questions, a beautiful woman came into my life and she teed up a really, really good question that I had never answered before. She said, you seem to know a lot about the Bible, but have you ever read it? I said, no. And I didn't like losing a argument. And so I started reading the Bible. And so I started reading the Bible and the living word that it is powerful because it speaks to you where you're at. And so I started in the book of Proverbs and just the deep wisdom there. And I started really understand that what I've been searching for my whole life was already right in front of me. And so that was the first question. The second question she asked me in the same vein was, you seem to know a lot about Jesus, but have you ever tried to develop a relationship with him? And that was the other aha. It's like, well, I don't know. I haven't read the Bible and I haven't tried to really develop a relationship with Jesus. And so both of those things opened up my eyes and perspective to searching and seeking that relationship. And as timing was just perfect, as I was open, I was tender to the opportunity. I also got around some godly men out here in Texas that were doing life the right way. Faith, fitness, family, finances, all very dialed in. We had leadership legacy based on multiple generations of pursuing the word of God, following Christ. And I saw the template of masculinity in my pastor, in my mentor. Now these days, my discipler. And I just realized what I've been looking for my whole life and really been teaching on was based in biblical masculinity. And so on this side of the cross, life's never been better. I spend my day surrounded with godly men that are putting Christ first. And I see how much there is a huge gap in our nation and especially with so many young men and boys that are just lacking that father voice that desperately need a good template of masculinity. Obviously, that masculinity template is based in Jesus, how he lived his life. But we get to do and walk it out as the lighthouses. So that's that's the long and short version of it. That's pretty sweet, man. Yeah. And I mean, I read through the download from your site on relationships for men. Why don't you talk a little bit about that and kind of what you're trying to accomplish there? How do you pull that together? And what are some of the basics that you see in that in that piece that really inform your overall ministry? Yeah. So good. That's a good question. So I believe as men, we learn everything by modeling. And so everything masculinity, we pick up through the men around us. We are the sum of the five people we surround ourselves with. So it's so important that we choose the right people in our life. But growing up without a healthy father figure and growing up as an only child, constantly wondering that question of like, what does it mean to be a man? I recognize that so many guys are modeling poor masculine behaviors because that's what they see on social media. That's what they see in the media. That's what they see online. They've got an absent father, distracted father, an older brother who's drinking, drugging, doing any of those things. And so they end up linking up into tribes that are driving in the wrong direction. So it ends up being drinking drugs, maybe school, maybe a gang. And so they're ending up linking up with the wrong people in their life and they start modeling that behavior. At the end of the day, because everything in masculinity is modeled, our tribe is everything. So relationship and healthy relationship with men doing life the right way across their faith, their fitness, their family and their finances ends up predicting the trajectory of your life. And so that relationship guide is ultimately a guidepost for men that are looking to deepen their relationship with their high value woman. So their wife, their partner, their spouse, their girlfriend. But the whole basis of it begins first by making sure you're linking up with other men. They're going to be intrusively accountable. They're going to hold you to a higher standard. As it says in the book of Proverbs, iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another. That's the foundation for it. So if you're doing life alone without intimate relationship and fellowship with other men, you're going to struggle in your romantic relationship because you're going to putting all of your needs, your desires, your emotional capacity, your hopes, your dreams, all in that one relationship. And that ends up destroying polarity first and foremost. And the second piece, it makes your woman carry the burden and the weight of what a masculine relationship should. And so the foundation for that relationship guide breaks down the pillars of a tribe of men, how to level up in your self-confidence, how to level up in your victory stacking, creating a really compelling vision for your life, your core values, but more so than anything, linking up with other men that are doing life the right way. That's awesome. When you talk through those four F's, like, you know, you said faith, family, fitness, and finances, you know, where do you come up with those? Where do you see those? I mean, I've been involved in fitness for a really long time and, you know, some of the tribes that you see in fitness can be really as dysfunctional as anything else. And so it strikes me that these four together, right, as opposed to even three out of the four is sort of the secret sauce. And so, I mean, I love that you're putting all four together, but just talk through those four for us and help us understand why you pulled them together and how you see them sort of fitting in and so integral with one another with relation to manhood. Yeah, so that's a great question. So those four parts make up a fulfilled life. And I would challenge any man to think that he can have a life of fulfillment if he only has two or three out of the four. Those four parts also represents, I believe, the four archetypes of men. So from a faith standpoint, we all have the potential to develop our spiritual side. And so the spirit is part of our four parts. From a fitness standpoint, we all have the potential to develop our physical discipline, like the warrior, the body. From a family side, that represents the heart centers, right? So we think about spirit, body, heart, emotional center. And then the finances side, that represents the intellect, how we think. And so these four parts make up the quadrant of really what it means to be a fully integrated whole man. We have our mind, we have our body, we have our hearts, and we have our soul. We can't be complete as men without all four of those parts. And

distorted relationships with women. I think you actually mentioned in the guide, you know, the body count idea, right? How many women you can actually have a sexual relationship with and this sort of being a mechanism of pride or how much money you actually make. Again, sort of seeking that fulfillment. So it strikes me that, you know, putting faith into this mix in the way that you are really is crucial. And so I'm just wondering if you can talk through that a little bit. Yeah. Well, faith is everything. You know, that's why it's the first of the four pillars. If you don't have a belief-based mindset and speaking to a secular community, because that was who I spoke to for a long time when I was first getting into this coaching, you know, faith is one of those things that will cringe some people and almost drive them away. And so when I talk about to a broad audience, when I talk about faith, faith is the belief-based mindset that you can do, be, achieve, have, or have something that you don't yet have. And from a biblical standpoint, you know, faith is believing in something that is yet seen, right? And so the foundation of faith is just the thought that you can have. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free Retirement Defense Guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. have more. And if that becomes the first little step in building a relationship with Christ and God, that's the first step. Because if you can't see yourself out of the current situation you're in, you're going to struggle in every single domain of life. And so God being the template, the true template for perfect life, perfect masculinity, you first have to believe that where you're at now is not where you're designed to be and where you're not going to end up in the eternal. And so faith is the first stepping point because it allows us to look beyond our current circumstance, problems, perspective, think bigger. And if you look back in, you know, the book of Genesis, God created us in his image to be fruitful, multiply, take dominion. That means that inside of us is that spiritual core to truly be small gods on earth, like in the image of God. That means we have to have faith in something bigger and a far greater designer than what we're currently operating from. So the idea would be essentially, if maybe if I'm hearing you right, you're looking beyond sort of some of the tangible things that we could actually achieve to something that we can't really see, but we're shooting for anyway, that there's this, there's this something beyond anything that we could actually grasp or handle, right? That we could, we could physically experience. There's something more out there. That's kind of what you're trying to, you're articulating with faith. Yes, of course. You know, I think that's what drives us. You know, and for anybody that has achieved any level of success across the other domains, maybe in your fitness, you've achieved, you know, a physical prowess that you're very proud of or financial success. So many guys like, man, I make a ton of money. Life is great. They got the Lamborghini and the Rolex and the nice house, all that stuff. But there's still an emptiness because the faith foundation is you're not designed for this world. Like you are a spiritual being operating in the meat suit. And the reason why you're still struggling, suffering and feeling empty is because we're not meant for this world. We're meant for something far greater. And so that's the faith beyond of our current situation. I just saw a clip about Mike Tyson a couple of days ago and he was actually surprising the people interviewing him when he said the two years he was in prison was the most peace he had. And they were like, well, you were on the top iron mic. Like you, you know, you were making like Jay-Z was talking about you making $30 million in one fight, you know, and in the 80s, that was huge or whatever it was 80s, 90s. But I just thought that was interesting. And you hear that all the time. People that achieve all this success, but they're still empty inside or they still can't fill that void in their, in their heart. So I, I totally relate to that. I've seen that a lot of times. I think a lot of men too, will, um, will hit those other three. And then that was kind of the path that I was on. I hit some financial success. I hit the fitness success. You know, I had a relationship, um, that I thought was going to be the one. And so I felt like I had the domains, but I was still missing something. And then the missing piece was faith and the relationship with, with Jesus, the relationship with an understanding that this is a very temporal existence, you know, for the amount of time they're actually here, it's a very short amount of time. And if you're not thinking and planning ahead towards the legacy that you're going to leave behind, but also the eternal and the afterlife. I think it just ends up being, it just feels very superficial and shallow. Sure. I hear you talk. Oh, go ahead, Nate. I was just going to say, I've noticed since 2020, I don't know if this is your guys' experience, but a lot of relationships, unless you're really intentional, have just Gone to the surface and people, especially like my guy friends. I have a few that I'm real tight with, but I've noticed a real shift. People just kind of want to keep everyone at a distance. Have you noticed that like with men that you're coaching or experience that? I don't know if it's just since 2020, but I feel like men in general, we don't get below the surface or open up a lot of times. Yeah. Is that a little bit, but what I'm also noticing an emergence of is a lot more men are really willing and raising their hand and seeking and searching because we have been carrying the burden, the weight of masculinity for so long. And so I'm noticing a lot more men, especially since the power of social media and the amount of men's groups that are popping up left and right. And there's more content creators. There's more bold Christians that are living faith forward. They're talking about their journey, their struggle, their testimony, and talking about the dark seasons where they're drinking drug and chasing women, whatever it was. And actually, you know, being vulnerable, open and honest on the platforms, I'm seeing a lot more men raise their hand and resonate with the content. So that, that's what I absolutely love is, uh, is actually seeing guys come forward because it's, it's in sharing the story and the testimony that we start to transform others. Um, but I do notice the, um, I think a distance as well from most men, we're emotionally constipated. If you weren't modeling, you know, good behavior of how to show emotional range, create intimacy with another man, be open, honest, transparent, vulnerable. It's hard for you to do in your thirties, forties and fifties. Um, but that's again, it comes back to modeling. And so if there's someone in your life that you look up to, it's got the car, the body, the family, and it's faith forward and he's open, honest, transparent, that gives you the template. And once you see the template once you can start to duplicate, replicate, and do it for yourself. That's good. You know, I'm really interested in, I mean, part of it's just my background, but I think part of it's also that it's very seldom incorporated into any sort of a faith framework, but the the fitness aspect of this, you know, when we're looking at models, it's easy to look at folks who are, um, you know, run themselves completely out of shape in order to achieve, you know, um, some sort of success or monetary gain or, or even, you know, you look out and you see folks who have this wonderful family, but they may die when they're, you know, 50, right? And so, uh, how do you, how do you think about that fitness? Where do you see that, um, really fitting in and helping guys the most as you coach them? What component and role does fitness really play there, um, from your angle? Yeah, for, for me, fitness was my first step. So if I look at my four S, um, you know, fitness came first. I'm faith forward now. Um, but when I start guys, especially if they are secular, if they are new to the idea of a higher power or God or relationship with Jesus, I start with fitness because fitness is the gateway to personal development for a man. We have to learn things the hard way. And the hardest way to learn something is through the body. And so we typically don't learn the lessons until death, diabetes, divorce, bankruptcy, something like that kicks us between the legs. And we start paying attention. And so

What do you actually want to invest in? Do you want to invest in fun on the weekends? Do you want to invest in getting in a better shape? And there is a goal orientation, sort of a vision, and a discipline that goes along with that. Like, it's not easy to develop a body that's in shape, right? It's not a trivial thing. And so, for a lot of people, I think they just let that sort of go by the wayside, but I would envision the discipline actually helps and transfers into the other three domains that you end up talking about. Is that a fair assumption? 100%. Yeah. If you have a template for success in one area, that same template works in the other areas. And so, if you can build your body through accountability, the right plan, program, process, and develop internal discipline, because in the beginning, you know, and you know this as a personal trainer, your Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday clients that are suffering and struggling from the Friday, Saturday decisions, like they're a totally different client than the Thursday, Friday client that is inspired and excited and deciding, hey, I'm totally recommitted right now. But I remember my Monday morning clients, like, hey, I live in Scottsdale when I was a personal trainer, and I had a gym there for a while. Scottsdale is a big, like, party town. So, my Monday clients, I always had flexibility around them. I would typically double book because one out of two of them would typically cancel the morning of because they were hungover from the weekend. But by Wednesday, they were all, like, sober again and like, ah, I'm recommitted. I'm recommitted, and I'm back in this. And so, Wednesday and Thursday client was very different from Monday and Tuesday client. So, it was typically. It was very cyclical. Yeah. And but the foundation for all of that is you don't develop internal discipline automatically. That's just most people don't have it. And so, you have to first develop external discipline. External discipline, another word for it is accountability. And so, you need someone else in your life that you don't want to let down. And so, that's the beauty of having a personal trainer, a coach, a mentor, a father figure where you hold yourself accountable to their standards because you don't yet have standards for your own life. And that template allows you to then integrate internal discipline because you start to succeed. You stack some victories. You develop your own confidence and your competence. And then once you've got that template in one area in the fitness domain, then you carry it over in something else, like your faith, like your family, like your finances. How do you think about something like this is something, so my background, in addition to being in personal training, I did Old Testament theology. And so, one of the things we think about a lot in Old Testament theology is just basic human limitation, right? And so, there's the one side of it where we've got all this discipline and all the effort that we can put in, and there's a certain degree to which we can and need to put that effort forth, but then we're always going to hit those walls. And so, how do you coach guys through those walls that they're going to inevitably hit, right, to recognize and maybe even use that to sort of point them to Christ? Yeah, that's a great question. Ultimately, if we rely on our own strength, at some point our strength is going to give out, right? That's, you know, the power of Christ comes in because I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, and that's the foundation of faith. And at any point in a man's journey, he's going to reach that point where he comes to the end of himself, and that's going to be in his finances, in his family, or in his fitness. Something is going to take him out of it. That's the tenderizing spot where I really believe that Jesus talks to us is because we're actually open, honest, ego has been dropped down. We're willing to submit and surrender. And so, A, knowing that that's coming, or realizing if they're in that season, we build on what we can build on from a fitness standpoint or core values or vision standpoint, but realize that we ultimately have no control of it. We have no control of the outcome other than our attitude and our effort. That's the only thing we do have control over. And so we approach every challenge and obstacle with the right attitude. That's changing the mindset, the perspective, maybe the emotional posturing, and the right amount of effort. Effort is the discipline and exercising towards our fitness, tracking our macros, doing the workouts. That's what we can control. The ultimate outcome for our life is not up to us. We can have a vision. We can choose, you know, to move in a certain direction, but God's the ultimate author. We carry the pen and we get to co-write it, but he's the ultimate author. And the reminder of that, life teaches that. I don't have to teach any of that. So when the problems show up and they show up for everybody, that's the beauty of having, you know, mentor in your life. When they do show up, it's simply standing alongside with somebody and say, Hey, listen, you know, you have control over two things, brother, your attitude and your effort. Okay. What do we have control over attitude and effort? What does that mean that you get to do? Great. Now we'll get to practice the real work, the spiritual work, which is faith-driven work that God has promises in the Bible that we get to live out if we're faithful. So how do we get to practice that? We'll get into the word, be a servant. When in doubt, focus out, put others first, be more loving. And that's where the scripture really comes into play. You know, when I was reading through your guide, one of the things that sort of struck me was the nice guy emphasis, you know, being a nice guy. And I loved the little part where it was, I think it was authenticity for a nice guy. Authenticity is less important than acceptance. Attachment. Than attachment. Yeah. And then it's opposite for someone who is not a nice guy, right? Who's moving toward high value manhood. Talk a little bit about what you mean by being a nice guy. I thought the guy did a really nice job of it, but give us a little summary of that and help us understand sort of why that's such a problem. Sure. Yeah. So the nice guy comes from a book I read about 10 years ago. It's written by Dr. Glover. It's called No More Mr. Nice Guy. The premise of the book is based around this ideology that the nice guy adopts growing up that he's not good enough how he is. And so he changed and molds his behavior to be accepted. He people pleases. He becomes a chameleon and he puts the needs of others before the needs of himself. And so the nice guy was created and typically predominantly by a strong female voice in his life. And so men that were raised without a healthy father figure with healthy male intercession, that's providing the blueprint for healthy masculinity, emotional range, and really creating a right of passage for the young man. He doesn't have that. And the mother, and typically most mothers are very nurturing, so they end up taking the role of both the mother and the father in the child rearing. And so the mother's voice ends up becoming the primary voice in the man's life. And so just from a very easy standpoint, you can look at if you were raised by a woman and your primary voice inside your head is that out of a woman, and you try to get into a relationship with a woman, your whole framework for your thinking is based on the ideology's perspective and needs of a woman. And so that's like a monkey teaching a fish how to climb a tree. They're completely opposite. So it doesn't work. And so these guys enter into relationship, romantic relationship, where they put the needs of the woman over their own needs. They stop being authentic because they want to attach. And attachment is a deeply human desire. We attach in all relationship, and we first needed to attach to our mother for comfort, for love, for nourishment. And so we attach to the feminine because that's what we were trained and programmed to do. But because we didn't have that healthy male intercession right around 12 through 17 years old where the father comes in and says, listen, you are no longer a boy and you now are stepping into the world of men. The rules for the world of men are very different than the world of women. Comfort and convenience will kill you, first off. Second, we have to earn our seat at the table every single day. Third, we have to sacrifice our body, master our flesh, and become the beacons of strength inside of our tribe. These are the rules of men. The rules of women are very much around comfort, convenience, and I want to be taken care of. Safety and security. But if a boy doesn't learn that through the tribe of men, he goes into his adult relationships seeking relationship with another woman, drawing strength from her rather than providing a strength. And so this nice guy syndrome is something I walked through for most of my adult life until about 10 years ago until I became aware of it. And all my relationships suffered and struggled. So I'd get into a relationship with women. I thought I was a man. I had no masculine relationships around me. And so I people pleased. I had approval seek. I'd put my needs last. I'd do whatever I could to make her happy. I would do things that were out of character, out of alignment. I was constantly in this state of stress because I wasn't living authentically. And I didn't want to lose the relationship. That's the attachment side

He's not, because he's not really being himself. And if you're not going to be yourself, no one can actually help you in what you're doing. There is no real direction. There's no real vision. There's no real anything. You're just sort of trying to shape yourself around others. And so you're abdicating something that is really a necessity. Yeah, I love that. That's a great observation, and I use Genesis as a reference point whenever I'm teaching on this, but you think about the order that Adam was given, so it came master first, God, then the mission, take care of the garden that I've given you, then the mate. Like that order matters. Master, mission, mate. And then when his beautiful bride showed up, he got distracted. She was tempted by the snake, and she said, take a bite of the apple, right? And so Eve took a bite, then she offered it to Adam. And if he had followed the order of his true vocation, what he was designed to do, master, mission, he would have led her in a positive direction. Rather, what he did is he put mate first above master and mission, and that was of course the fall into sin, and that's where we are now. But ultimately, that's the nice guy problem, is when a woman shows up in his life, he gives up his master and his mission, stops pursuing his vocation, stops making his purpose primary, and puts the needs of his partner above his own needs, above God's needs. And so we see this all the time. We've seen it since the dawn of time. And that's really the issue is we get distracted by the beauty, thinking that the way that we're really going to pursue her and lead her and like, we're going to have a happy life is by putting her needs first. And that's to say you can't be sacrificial in your relationship, but as a man, we have a mission from God, first and foremost, to take care of what he's given us. So if you have a vision for your life, you got purpose, you got a vocation that you're meant to pursue, like that has to be first and foremost. The mate is the cherry on top. It is truly the helpmate. And when you are on path, on purpose, having a fun time doing it, living your life by core values, living your vision, stacking victories, then that becomes a great complimenting part of the relationship dynamic as opposed to the primary piece of it. And do you see that outside of relationships as well? I mean, I had a conversation. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up, and many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free Retirement Defense Guide, or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878, or call 888-958-6579. an author the other day, she wrote a book on the image of God. And one of the comments she made was, you know, because God made man and woman in God's image, as we're sort of partnering together as men and women, even outside of a marital relationship, what we're really doing is we're accomplishing the task that God has given us as a, you know, dual-gender humanity, right, as men and women within society. And so I often think of it in terms of the marital relationship. I mean, I've been married for more than 20 years, you know, like, that's just, you know, one of the primary contexts. When I think about it, that's kind of where my head goes, is like, how do my wife and I partner in this? But her point, as we were talking, she's like, well, you know, like, we're having this podcast together. You're a man. I'm a woman. And now we're having these great conversations. We're collaborating. We're doing these things. And so, do you see it that way as well? Well, yes, and I'll say yes from the standpoint of, you know, the perfect covenant is between the matrimony of husband and wife. That's ideal. I think that is the first covenant and the most protected male-female relationship that you should have. And so that's the yes part. The and part, I don't believe men and women should have a relationship outside of the context of, you know, maybe working together towards a shared mission, strictly because we're knuckleheads as men. And as much as we want to lead lovingly, the temptation is just, it's very strong. And so I think from the dynamic of men and women being friends, I don't have, I don't carry relationships with women that I'm not pursuing. I don't follow women on social media. And it's not for any other reason than, like, I'm in a season of singleness right now. And I know that my future wife will respect so much more the fact that I have a protected space when it comes to the dynamic of men and women. And so while there can be great conversation, great collaboration, that's also intimacy develops. And so, you know, personally, I protect that because you start like really being attracted to somebody the way of thinking. And there's going to be natural polarity between men and women. It just creates a context for, I don't know, potential sin. Understood. Nowadays, I commend you on that because I think anyone, any woman out there that is worth pursuing, that has a, you know, biblical base and a relationship with Christ, I think they're going to look at that and see that as attractive because it's very rare. And I was just having this conversation with my son, you know, obviously a teenager, you know, everyone thinks that he thinks he has to have that right now. And I'm like, dude, you have so much life ahead of you, like focus on yourself. And I'm wanting him to read this guide and get more plugged into what you're doing because he needs that direction besides just me. You know how it is sometimes from dad, it's not always the same. Yeah, a hundred percent. We need a tribe. We need other men around us that are moving in the same direction and yeah, tribe is everything. So how would you say, I think, and I may be remembering this wrong, but when I read through the PDF, I remember the word facade, at least popping into my mind. If it wasn't included in the PDF, that's kind of what I remember. So the nice guy can't continue the facade, I think is what it talks about. That at some point there's this breaking point where the authenticity almost has to shine through because it's too hard to sort of allow it to lie dormant and underneath a mask and a surface. And so how do you really see that, the authenticity question, how central is authenticity, I suppose, to real manhood. And what do you mean by authenticity? Kind of flesh that out a little bit. Yeah, for sure. Well, I'll tell you how the facade comes up. Dr. Dobert describes it beautifully. He calls it the victim puke. And so the feelings have been repressed for so long, right? The emotional needs, the authentic self, what you want, what you hope, what you desire, all those things have been stuffed down for so long that the boiling point comes to a peak typically during a conflict, right? And so the nice guy typically avoids conflict, but conflict is a healthy way to build relationships. And so without conflict, you can't create intimacy. And so at some point conflict ensues or the nice guy has just created a lack of polarity and so there's a problem that shows up and then he pukes. He pukes all of the stuff that he's repressed in an emotional outburst. And that shows up and she's like, who is this guy? He's not a nice guy. He's not really the nice person I thought he was because he's carrying all this pent up frustration. So that becomes typically a wake up point for both the woman and the man in the dynamic to realize that something's not in alignment. Something's not truly being authentic. And so the nice guy will try to fix on that and then he'll try to make himself better and, you know, put all things back in the box and try to make the relationship working because he doesn't want to lose the attachment. If a nice guy is listening to this, that's your first indicator that something in your life is out of alignment. And that should be the point where you start asking the question, what am I not being truthful about? What am I not being honest about? What needs am I or not being met? And that becomes the personal development self-awareness journey that will really provide you authenticity. So authenticity means you feel safe truly being who God designed you to be. And so if you got some weird quirks, you're into something, you're a nerd at heart, like you love whatever it is. Like you can showcase and show that off without the fear of rejection. So because a nice guy has spent his whole time trying to defend this facade, this fake version of who he thinks other people will like, he has a hard time really being truly authentic. And so authenticity means you just show up in the world the way God designed you to be. And that's the beauty of it. There's no worried about,

and in other people begin. And he talks a lot about making sure that other people's, he calls them anxieties, I think we could talk about in terms of expectations, interests, anything like that, but that those things don't seep in and start to define and condition the way that the leader actually responds within a given situation. And so the leader needs to be sort of a, not an isolated self, but an extremely self-aware self and a self-confident self to say, I understand that these are all worries and concerns around me, but the thing that I can do is just be myself within this context and make sure that I'm not picking up all these different anxieties and worries from everyone else. That's good. Yeah, and so that's kind of where my mind goes when you're saying that because it seems to me that authenticity has to, again, I like the way you illustrated that in the guide, that there's this difference between, it wasn't acceptance, I apologize. What was the word? It's attachment. Attachment. Attachment. I don't know why I keep going back to acceptance. But attachment versus authenticity. As one goes up, the other one almost has to go down. And the way you described it, really, I think illustrates that well because if you're authentic, you have no other way to be. And so whether people like that or not, whether, you know, and it's not about being an evil person and just torquing people off, it's just about being you. And this is the way I have to confront the world because there's no real other way for me to do that. I think the dangerous part of that, too, is the people-pleasing aspect you touched on because I've experienced that and caught myself doing that before. And then it's like you step back and you realize you're doing them a disservice and also yourself because you're not being your true self. You're not encouraging them. You're not inspiring them. And you're not being a leader, but you're really not standing on the foundation that God gave you. So that really definitely hits me. Like, that's a good perspective to think about. Thanks for sharing that. That's great. That's great. We all want to be accepted and loved for who we are. And that's, I think, the nice guy's romantic at heart. He wants to be loved. That's what he wants more than anything. And so the making of the nice guy is really rooted in desiring love. But if you don't first love yourself or who you are authentically and put your needs as a priority and make that something you fight for, you can't have anyone else love you, too. We can't have what we don't give. And so if we're not giving yourself that foundation of true love and true acceptance, the attachments that you have that you build your life around end up becoming very shallow. And so it just becomes this constant game of, okay, maybe if I change who I am or if I change this or I adopt this or I become like this or I compromise this, then maybe people will love me and like me when the truth of it is the right person and the right people will love you and accept you for the exact unique person of who you are and not anyone else. Can you say, you know, I mean, when you've been talking about this, so much of it sort of roots back into this idea of a tribe and the necessity of having other men around you to affirm you, to mentor you, to push you, to hold you accountable. I don't know that I see a, I think it might be too much to say that I see a lack of that in the church, but I will say that in my experience as a Christian, I have experienced a dearth of that in my Christian experience, that there just hasn't been a lot of times. It's difficult. I'll say it like that. It's difficult for men to get together. That's been my experience of it. It's just everything gets real busy. There's a lot of other responsibilities. And so this is one thing that because it's easy for it to slip off the plate, we just let it slip off the plate. Is that an excuse? Is that a, or is that something that you see happening an awful lot? Like, why is it that Christian men have maybe some difficulty doing this? Yeah. I'm going to go broad and I'm going to go narrow on this. Cool. Yeah. The, I think big part of the reason I did not choose Christianity and that path for 36 years, I was raised Catholic. I took a long time away from the church. I tried all the other spiritual practices to try and find my relationship with God. But the big reason that it took until about four years ago for me to be really curious about the path of Christianity is that most Christian men that I had met until four years ago were weak, spineless, like kind of beta men that weren't creating fruit in their life, had no family that I wanted to follow or mold my life around, had very little fitness and weren't doing godly things with their finances. And so there was this poor modeling that I saw and I was just like, I don't want that. If that's what you believe in, I don't want the fruit of your life. And so that was my experience for the longest time until I came to Texas. So in Texas, we've got a great pastor out here, Pastor Keith Craft. He's in his 60s. He's like six foot five and 220, but he's jacked. No way. I love Keith Craft. He spoke at a youth conference I was at at my church years ago. He's amazing. He's amazing. And he's got a wife that chooses him. He's got three kids. They're all also pastors. And his life mission for the last 40 years since they planted their flag here in Frisco has been to build the men's movement based on King David's mighty men. Every Saturday morning, there's 300 men that show up at our church from 7 a.m. till 9 a.m. We spend about 30 minutes in message and another hour and a half in fellowship, small groups. I lead a group of men right now and we take them through a year-long discipleship process. And I'd say 60% of the guys in the room, because you're never going to get 100%, but 60% of the guys in the room are physical specimens. Last year, I ran a 100-mile ultra marathon with 65 guys from the church. Like you want to find like a church where they're pumping out one ultra marathon, 100-mile runners. Like we had 60 show up. Like it's just gangster. And so there is the capacity for it, but what I believe that we need in the churches is more bold, almost, and I think of Jesus in the temple. He had righteous violence where he cleared out that temple. And I think what we're missing right now so much in Christianity is men that are afraid of having that righteousness, that conviction, that passion, and that directed violence. And we need to be violent with the weakness inside of ourselves. Otherwise, the devil just ends up taking over. And so, you know, the narrow part of the question is the templates out there. I just think we need more men that are really living a life fully abundant. Faith, fitness, family, finances, and showcasing and showing it off. Yeah. Very cool. Man, Aaron. I mean, well, I think we're just kind of scratching the surface on this issue, but we're getting close into time. So let's close it out like this. If you had to give just that one piece of advice to men, you know, what do we need to do in order to become high value men? What is that one first step that you see a lot of people make that you'd recommend for people who are struggling with this and want to take that first step? I'll give you three. So step number one. I'm getting bonus. I love it. Step number step number one is you need vision. You need vision for your life. You need a direction that you're moving in for the next two, three, four, five, and 10 years. If you don't know where to start, find a man that has fruit in his life and model what he's created. So create and craft a vision. That's step one. Without vision, the people perish. Step two is you need to define your core values. So values help you determine good and best. A good life will rob you of a great life. And so without core values, we end up defaulting. And so design your life based on core values. Three, you need to stack consistent victories. Victories are the small wins that build your confidence and your competence so you can take on the real challenges like your vices. And so vision, values, victories. Those are the first three steps to becoming a high value man. Very cool, man. I love the values. I got to work with an executive coach several years ago and that was the first place we started was what's your vision, what's your values? And so actually integrity was my top value. It was the thing that I care about the most. And I will say that it's framed a lot of what I've done since I discovered it. And so I really appreciate the advice and I think it's a great, a great three-step process for folks to go through. If you're struggling with this, guys, go to AaronAlejandrinos.com and check out the free download they've got there. I think it'll be well worth your time. And just check out Aaron on Instagram. It's the The Fit Beard. Yes, there you go. It's daily. I knew it wasn't your name, but I, and I knew it had a beard, the Fit Beard, the Fit Beard, or at the Fit Beard, I guess it will be on Instagram. And we'll put it all in the show notes, so check it out. It's daily inspiration. It's definitely inspired me

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