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Politics as an Art, Not a Science | Faith & Politics #6

October 1, 2026

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55:33

About this episode

James Spencer and Ashish Varma debrief their conversation with William Cavanaugh, and work out what he was and wasn't saying.

They start with a tension: Cavanaugh sounded gentler in conversation than his books read, and both men try to account for it. The answer they land on has to do with audience — that Torture and Eucharist and Being Consumed are written to people who need to resist, while the broader project is aimed at those of us sitting near the center of a global economic order who don't notice we're being formed at all.

Much of the episode turns on Cavanaugh's remark that he couldn't answer a question about the midterms without sounding partisan. James and Ashish read that carefully: not as a coded endorsement, but as a recognition that theological convictions will sometimes land incidentally on one side of a two-party ballot without originating there.

From there they recover the older sense of politics — the life of the polis — through a piece of litter on the ground, a squirrel in the road, and Hebrews on efforts that matter without being ultimate.

Chapters:

00:00 Why he sounded softer than he reads

02:23 The nation state as an ideology, not a neutral container

04:33 Why Cavanaugh reaches for idolatry

07:14 Formation, identity, and voices from the periphery

10:16 "I'm not sure I can answer that without sounding partisan"

16:52 Incidental alignment isn't partisanship

20:52 Recovering the polis

26:26 The litter on the ground

29:35 Creation care and the squirrel in the road

36:00 Amazon, Target, and picking your poison

40:13 Politics as art rather than science

44:16 We don't fix the world; we live faithfully in it

48:15 The fall as an optimistic doctrine

51:04 Hebrews: effort that matters without being ultimate

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