Norman Wirzba on Land, Life, and Dominion | Faith & Politics #15
With Norman Wirzba
November 2, 2026
·1:04:57
About this episode
Norman Wirzba — Gilbert T. Rowe Distinguished Professor of Theology at Duke and author of This Sacred Life and Love's Braided Dance — joins James Spencer and Ashish Varma for the tenth episode in the faith and politics series.
Wirzba grew up farming and wanted to be a farmer, then went through graduate school without encountering a single farmer on a syllabus. Reading Wendell Berry changed that, and gave him a way to see that agricultural traditions open the major philosophical and political questions rather than sitting off to one side of them.
The conversation moves from what happens when land stops being a source of life and becomes a financial asset, through data centers and the water they need, to a reframing of dominion that may be the most useful thing in the hour: mastery understood the way a musician masters an instrument — you become a student of it, and what you master is better for your engagement with it.
It closes on the difference between being pro-baby and pro-life, and on the Colossians hymn as evidence that the early Christian vision was never about individual souls escaping the world.
Go deeper: Christians & Politics
Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.
Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.
Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.org
About James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/james
The Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/framework
Order Digital Discernment: amazon.com
Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org
Chapters:
00:00 Introductions
01:31 No farmers on the syllabus
04:36 From Yale to environmental ethics to Wendell Berry
09:58 The Old Testament and living with land
11:25 When land becomes a financial asset
14:39 Data centers and the water question
17:22 Auditing what we actually use AI for
20:38 Vines and bugs on a Roman temple of peace
24:51 The fantasy that humans don't need
30:44 Technology is never simply a tool
34:06 Do you want to disappear?
37:54 Bucking bales and embodied knowing
39:19 The garden as vocation
42:34 Mastery: the guitar, not the machine
48:36 The Anthropocene and a car without brakes
56:26 Pro-baby or pro-life?
1:00:26 Colossians 1 and the scope of redemption
Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.
Listen & Subscribe
Keep exploring
You might also like
- October 22, 2026Who Pays for the Data Center? AI, Politics, and Faith: Politics and Faith #14Listen to episode → (opens in a new tab)
- October 1, 2026Politics as an Art, Not a Science | Faith & Politics #6Listen to episode → (opens in a new tab)
- May 26, 2025Finding Jesus When Faith Is Hard (Kyle Norman)Listen to episode → (opens in a new tab)
- September 24, 2026No Nation Can Be the City of God | Faith & Politics #4Listen to episode → (opens in a new tab)
Keep listening
New episodes twice weekly.
Calm, thoughtful, theological conversations for uncompromising faith.