Chris Worthington- Multiplied Movie

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful, theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey, everyone, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I am joined today by Chris Worthington, and he is the director of a new film that's coming out, The Multiplied Movie. The actual title of the movie is Just Multiplied, but you can visit multipliedmovie.com if you want to find out more about it, and tickets are on sale now. So, Chris, man, thanks for joining us. I've read a lot about the movie. I've seen sort of snippets of the movie in previews and stuff like that, and so I'm actually really excited to have you on and just talk about what this movie is, what it talks about, and how it works. But before we go too much further, just tell people kind of what the movie is, when it's going to be out, all that kind of fun stuff. Just get through some of the particulars, and we'll include these in the show notes as well, folks, so don't grab your pens and write it down, but you'll have access to it in the show notes. Yeah, so my name is Chris. Thank you for having me, seriously. So multiplied, in short, is about the start of a generation of Holy Spirit evangelists being multiplied all over the globe. And it's an international documentary that takes place in Brazil, Nigeria. And as we show this multiplied movement, we're also showing the Reinhard Bonnke story and his life and legacy and how he believed that after he passed away, there would be this massive movement that would multiply, essentially, his effort. And yeah, so the tickets are actually on sale right now in U.S. theaters nationwide. It's in theaters for two days on May 20th and 21st, and you can actually go to fathomevents.com to get your tickets. Totally sweet, man. And what got you interested in this? Because I know you've done one other movie, at least, in the past. But what got you interested in this topic? Kind of talk a little bit, maybe, about your background and what ultimately led you into this sort of filmmaking in the first place. Yeah, so I think the best way to answer that question is just to start at the beginning. So I grew up going to church, non-denominational churches. I was baptized Greek Orthodox. But throughout my life, I didn't really believe, per se. And anyways, I got to the age of 16, and I became really depressed, and I didn't know why I was alive. And anyways, I got tricked into going to a Hillsong United concert. And I was told, you should go because they're super professional. You're going to be blown away. They sound better than Pink Floyd. And I'm like, okay, I guess I'll go. So then I go to this concert, and I have this crazy encounter with Jesus at 16. And I went from being suicidally depressed to being the opposite of depressed, filled with joy, filled with purpose. And literally, like in the snap of a finger, I was set free. And that was actually November 22, 2013. It's been more than 10 years, and I've been completely set free from one encounter with Jesus. But throughout my life, I had this interest in film. I always loved film. I would pretty much win all the computer animation contests at my middle school and high school. And I was like, huh, I guess I'm not too bad at this. And then I met Jesus, and I pretty much thought to myself, wait a second, what if we took this passion and this passion and put them together, and we told the world about Christ? And that's really how it all started. Just an encounter with the King, the Son of God. And yeah, and ultimately, at the end of the day, that's what we want to show. I'm trying to document Jesus. I figured out you can't because you literally cannot document the King. You can't. It's too much glory. You can't even, not even a little bit. But I'm going to do my best to try to evangelize. Very cool, man. And what about this particular movie was it? I mean, did you hook up with the evangelist that's sort of featured in this? Like, what got you interested in just this particular multiplied? Yeah, so it was the day that Billy Graham actually passed away. So when Billy Graham passed away, he was a huge influence in my life ever since I got saved at that concert. And when he passed away, it was like I knew him because I just would watch him every day, see his little documentaries that he would release on YouTube. And I had a question, what does the future of evangelism look like? And I kind of just put that on the back burner, that question. And then a year later, Reinhard Bonnke passed away. Another massive evangelist. I mean, they call him the Billy Graham of Africa. I mean, he reached 79 million people, signed decision cards, giving their life to Christ in Africa. And then the question came back again, what does the future of evangelism look like? And long story short, I got connected with Daniel Kolenda, who's the person who actually took over for Reinhard Bonnke. And I decided, you know what, I'm going to interview Daniel, and I want to see what Daniel has to say about the future of evangelism. I mean, if God entrusted Reinhard to put Daniel in charge, I'm going to see Daniel's answer. So I interviewed him, and Daniel's response to me was one word, multiply. He believes that the future of evangelism is about multiplication, not just addition. It's no longer about a select few famous evangelists. There was a time for that, and that was great, but it's no longer about that. We've hit a new date on God's calendar, and now it's about multiplying thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people to preach the gospel all over the world, hence the name multiplied. And that's really what got me started in this. It was really the passing of these two generals of the faith. And that's what got it started. So, I mean, when we live in America, right? I at least live in the United States. I don't travel and doesn't sound like as extensively as you have. And certainly not in documenting these these interesting Christian movements around the globe. But I mean, there there is a sense in which I think most people in the United States feel like Christianity is on the decline, at the very least within the United States. And just sort of given the way that our perceptual bubbles work. Right. If it's declining right in front of us, it obviously is declining everywhere. But this film really shows that's probably not the case. So can you speak a little bit to that and maybe the misperception that Christianity is waning? Yeah. Well, as it turns out, there's more places in the world than America. I figured out. And it's funny because I'm as American as you can get. And so really, this documentary is when I really started traveling. And but yeah, to to your point, I discovered that Christianity is exploding around the world. In fact, Africa, I believe by the year 2060 is going to be the most Christian continent in the world. And that's actually, I believe, partly in part because of Reinhard Bonnke. Like not not kidding. Reaching millions of people. But everywhere we everywhere we traveled, Brazil, we sold out three stadiums. We're talking like eighty thousand person stadium, hundred thousand person soccer stadiums. We sold them out faster than Coldplay and U2. They were the they were the former records for these stadiums. We've sold it out faster than Coldplay and U2 and those are huge bands. And so we sold out three stadiums in Brazil alone. And the and the demographic of that, the average age was twenty four in Brazil. And that's three stadiums. There's over three hundred thousand average age, twenty four year olds at this event all for Jesus in Brazil. And then in Africa, I went straight to Africa right after this Brazil. The send event it's called. I went to I went to Africa and that was a that was a fun experience. Lots of persecution over there. But we got shot at. That's a whole story. And you'll see multiplied. But we end up going to a crusade with Christ for all nations and Daniel Kolenda. And it is a four hundred thousand person gospel event. And we rolled into this. I mean, we were in the middle of nowhere. I mean, we're driving through the desert and all of a sudden we turn a corner and we go in this small town and there's four hundred thousand people in the middle of a field. And I look at Daniel and I'm like, what? How? What? These people are here in the middle of nowhere for Jesus blown away. And then we get out of the car. He takes the stage and he goes, hallelujah. And he starts preaching the gospel. And and yeah, something that I noticed traveling is that the Holy Spirit is moving all over the world and all.

All we have to do is preach God's son, Jesus. When you preach Jesus, when you preach the word of God, in truth, the Holy Spirit comes, seriously, and we'll see demons cast out. I know in America that that might scare some people, but I'm just your normal dude. I grew up spear fishing, you know, uh skateboarding, and, uh, I got thrown into this and, and I was like, what's happening here? Oh, Jesus is here. So the demons in them are manifesting. They're getting free right now. Oh, I guess this is what happens. And, um, yeah, the Holy Spirit is moving all over the world. And that's the thing. I only saw a little bit. There's so much more that's happening. I heard in China, uh, it's Christianity is growing faster than any other place in the whole world. We haven't even documented that yet. We just did Africa and South America so far. So yeah. Are there plans to do more? I mean, uh, you know, are you, are you sort of on the prowl to do more on these documentaries and really build it out? Yeah, so, um, this is the first place I'll say it. Uh, we got picked up for season two and three. And uh so we're going to keep going with this. It's going to be like, uh, a reality show documenting a global Christianity. And it's, uh, it's fun. It'll be entertaining. I'll be the host of it as I am of season one. Yeah. And uh we just kind of document what's happening around the world. And uh and yeah, so definitely more, more seasons. Uh, and we actually have a lot of the pre-production already done for season two. So exciting stuff. That's awesome, man. Congratulations. That's fan, that's, it really is fantastic. I mean, you know, I think again, you know, as somebody who, you know, I'm mainly traveled even when I, when I have been out of the States, I've mainly traveled in Europe, um, you know, European countries, Germany, um, Eastern Europe over to like Romania or even uh Czech Republic, you know, those kinds of places. And my sense is that it's a completely different vibe over there than it is like in South America or in Africa. And it's just interesting because there's so much commonality, it seems like between the United States and some of those other countries, even though, you know, you wouldn't want to flatten the differences out, but you, you don't, even when working with Christian ministries, you don't get the sense of vibrancy and urgency and 400,000 people coming to, you know, hear uh the gospel preached that you're describing any uh any ideas as to what is different about what the experience of the people is on the ground in like South America or Africa that maybe is sort of inclining their hearts more toward the gospel message? Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. Yeah, so I would say this is my answer to this question always. In Africa, they believe in something. They just believe in something. I mean, if you're in the middle of the bush of Africa, it's hard to find an atheist. From my opinion and from what I've seen, they believe in something. Whether you believe in witchcraft, whether you believe in some sort of juju, you believe in the supernatural. So, and also in a lot of these areas in Brazil, a lot of them, it's the same. In America, I would say there's definitely a cynicism towards religion, towards believing in the supernatural, in God, uh just because, uh America. Uh, you could probably psychoanalyze that, but um the culture of Africa and uh Brazil and I would, I would definitely say Africa for sure. They believe in something, whatever it is. So when we, when we roll into a place like Africa and we say, uh tomorrow night, bring all of your juju, bring all of your witchcraft, bring all of your voodoo dolls, bring all of it, all your black magic, bring it tomorrow night. We're throwing it in a barrel. We're gonna light it on fire. And you're gonna surrender your life to Christ because he's the king of the spirit realm. He's the king of it all. If you want to be on the winning side in the supernatural side of things, follow Jesus. And all these witch doctors and all these people who follow this juju stuff go, oh, wait a second. I, I, I wanna follow the winner. I wanna follow the king. If that's Jesus, I wanna follow Jesus. So it's almost like they have it ingrained in them already to believe in something. Um, so when we bring them Jesus, it's like the ultimate answer. And they're like, yeah, yes, please. Yeah, it's, that's a really, and I mean, I think that rings true for me. I, I think, um, you know, even just, so my specialty is in Old Testament theology. And so what you see in the ancient Near East, you see a lot of this, like they do believe in something, just like you're describing. They all have their gods. And it all comes down to which God beats the other God. And you know, whoever wins, that's who you serve. And so it is in and out. It didn't work out perfectly in the ancient Near East. You know, you had a lot of wars and battles and all that kind of stuff. But you could see how people would be less put off by even the suggestion of God, right? Believing in some sort of God wasn't weird, right? It wasn't odd, you know? Whereas sometimes in America, you do get that vibe. It's like, oh, do you actually believe this stuff is true? You actually believe somebody came back from the dead? Strange, right? Like that's kind of how it feels. But in other, you know, in other places, you know, you might, you know, you, they just have a different inclination toward it. So that's really interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. You're like, strange. Yes, right. That really is. That really is kind of what you're, what we get sometimes from like the American uh perspective. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, how do you, how do you see this, like when you, when you're thinking about people going to the theaters and watching this movie, right? Even Christians, right? What do you think are gonna be some of the, what do you hope will be some of the responses that you get? Yeah, so I'll tell you some of the responses I've gotten already. Um, so the first time I ever did a focus group screening, which is like a private screening for an audience, um, the first time we ever did that, I wasn't expecting the reactions I got. So after the screening, um, I, we did a little Q&A, so on and so forth, but I left and as I was leaving out the building that we were doing the screening in Orlando, this woman came up to me and there was just makeup all down her face. I mean, just like she's weeping, crying. I guess she was in the back of the screening and, and she, she couldn't even get words out. And she was saying, Oh, my gosh, I, I, I, I, I don't even know what to say. Uh, thank you for making this. And um I was taken back. I was like, oh my gosh, okay. Uh are you crying in a, in a, you know, like a good way or a bad way? Like, I don't know. Right. Obviously a good way. But uh, because she's crying a lot, you could tell. And um and anyway, she said it's just done with such excellence and this story has never been told like in a commercial way. The Reinhard Bonnke story. And it's so powerful. Like, she was saying she could feel the presence of God so strong that she was like trembling in her seat. Um the, and actually last week, we did a screening um in Texas and there was a gentleman in the screening and another focus private screening. And uh anyways, at the end of the screening, he was also in tears and he said, I was one of those little, I was a kid in one of those Reinhard Bonnke crusades in Africa on my brother's shoulder. And that's where I gave my life to Christ. And he said, this movie is gonna, is gonna change the world. And just weeping. We're getting a lot of people crying. And um and you know, and, and here's the funny thing about it. There, I'm sarcastic in it. I'm, I'm sarcastic. I'm, I'm, I crack jokes. It's lighthearted. Um it's fast paced. It's entertaining. Um but from my understanding from filmmaking, uh what I'm learning is when you take humor and

Lots of emails, lots of crazy supernatural things that are confirming the film. Like, you think I'm crazy. Maybe you wouldn't think I'm crazy, but some people. Between our entire production team, behind our entire marketing team, there's these supernatural things happening, and we're all like, okay, well, that's Jesus just confirming it again. So, we believe Jesus is behind this, and the responses are gonna be amazing. And I would say this, we're gonna be giving a altar call. Daniel Kolenda is actually gonna be preaching the gospel at the end of the screening. I was told by some Hollywood people I shouldn't do that. My response was, I don't care what you say. I'm not gonna bow down to you. I'm gonna bow down to Jesus Christ. You know, I fear the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell, right? That's the one that we actually fear. So, I'm just, I'm like, you know what? No, we're preaching the gospel. And so, Daniel Kolenda himself at the end will be preaching the gospel, giving an altar call, salvation prayer. And so, we're actually telling people, bring, you know, your non-believing friend, because Anybody could watch this. Another response we've got from it is it feels like a secular documentary on Netflix that happens to be all about Jesus. And, so that's another, that was a big compliment to me. Yeah. But, yeah, number one, to answer your question, I hope people give their life to Christ in the theater. Yeah. That's amazing, man. I mean, I love that you're doing that because I mean, for a film to be all about this and to just leave it sort of off, right? Wouldn't quite feel right. It would feel like a secular documentary without it almost, you know, which is, I think it's very cool that you've added that in. So, how do you see, you know, there's part of me, you know, and again, I'm sort of in the American church, right? So I'm excited about what's going on in the church worldwide, but I'm also sitting back looking at this and saying, man, the church in the United States could use some revitalization, right? After the Billy Graham crusades and that sort of heyday, you really haven't had any sort of unifying message, let's say, that Christians can really get around or unifying, maybe person that Christians could really get around. It's all sort of feels very fractured and you know, sort of disconnected and almost dispassionate in some ways. Like, we're all sort of struggling underground, but we're not really doing it together. That makes sense. That's just my impression of how it sort of feels. Yeah, you articulated that really well. Yeah, I see that. I see that too. Yep. Yeah. And I think we've done with some work in New England. And so I know, you know, we, I used to describe those churches in New England as sort of embattled, but faithful, right? There's all these little small congregations who are really just trying to stay faithful, but it's hard work, right? It's really difficult work to do that, remain the body of Christ in New England, where it has been very inoculated to the gospel. And so, you know, do you, do you envision, you, I mean, hope that multiplied can sort of play a role in revitalizing the American church toward stronger evangelism, toward, you know, what other components do you see needing to be put in place? Maybe, maybe that's the best way to say this in addition to the movie, it would be a really great impetus. Like, what do you see as necessary within the American church to move us from where we are to someplace where you're describing in South America or Africa? Yeah, yeah. So, hmm, I would say, I would say to begin answering your question, multiplied, I believe, kind of addresses what you were mentioning a second ago. It's kind of fractured, you know, like Christianity in America. There's no big person. There's no Billy Graham we can look at any longer. And I think that this directly confronts that. And our statement that I've said a million times is pretty much our slogan is, it's no longer about a select few, but about an entire generation of people just like you. And I believe that that idea that it's not about being a famous pastor evangelist anymore, but it's about all of us. I think going back to what the Bible said, you know, create disciples, make disciples of all nations. You know, it's not don't look to one person in particular, all of us together. I believe that that idea, and idea is a powerful thing. An idea, the idea of multiplied could go way past the film. It could go way past everything. Once an idea is planted and the Holy Spirit plants it, Australia, China, Europe, all over the globe, and people start having this paradigm of, oh, you know what? It's not about me. You know what? Let me, let's move some of the ministry finances and let's, let's start raising up evangelists instead over here. Like, let's, let's fill one of these people and let's let them, you know, we, we believe God using them. It's like a paradigm shift. And I believe that it looks like ministries hopping on board with that paradigm and putting their nail in the sign that Jesus is trying to hang. I had a vision like a year and a half ago at a worship night and it was a sign and it said, uh, it's time to multiply on it. And, um, it, it was like Jesus was trying to hang it for like a long time and no one wanted to take a nail and hang it. And when someone would pick it up, they'd kind of loosely put the nail and then it would fall off. And it was a very vivid vision. I was shocked. I wrote it down in my journal. I was like, okay. And then Daniel Kolenda came along and he, he ran up and he took a huge nail and he went, I see it. And he just hit it as hard as he possibly could. And he, and he sunk his nail in and behind him were ministries coming behind them, taking their nail and their influence and their money and going, Ooh. And, and they were all grabbing the paradigm and they were putting their efforts into it so that others could be raised up. So an army could be raised up. And, um, yeah, I, I wrote that down because it was, uh, it was pretty, pretty vivid, uh, vision. Um, but, but I would say that, I would say it's a paradigm shift. The paradigm shift that it's no longer about a select few. It's about your average Joe. Yeah. Well, I know when we met because we met at NRB, um, so National Religious Broadcasters Convention for folks who are not NRB folk, but we met at NRB and one of the questions I asked you was whether you featured D.L. Moody in the movie, um, which I don't think you do. Um, but, but, and it doesn't really matter. Um, but he was that guy who was sort of the precursor to Billy Graham, right? And, uh, I wanted to, I wanted to throw out this quote to you because I think it resonates so well with the, what you articulate. It's not about the select few. It's about every one of us doing the job. So D.L. Moody, the beginning of one of his books called To the Work, To the Work. It was a book on exhortations, exhortations to Christians. He writes this, uh, as I have frequently had occasion to remark, it is far better to get a hundred men to do the work than to do the work oneself. Only when the rank and file of the Christian churches are enlisted in active service for Christ will his kingdom advance as it ought. Oh my goodness. Come on. Wow. Wow. Yeah, when I was reading that, you got to text that to me. You got to text that to me. I'll let you know where it's at. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those, like, it's one of the quotes that I ran across when I was doing work on D.L. and I found it and I'm like, man, I love this quote. And then when I was reading through some of the information on multiplied, I was like, oh, this is, this is great. Like I think throughout the ages, my guess is if, if I knew Billy Graham better or you knew Billy Graham, you know, better, we'd find these sort of statements in his too. Like, I don't think any of them wanted to be the guy out there. They were just the ones who were allowing themselves to be used powerfully by God. And, and, and so it was like, wow, why don't we all just let, let God use us this powerfully. And, and so that's where my mind went when you were kind of explaining your vision there of, uh, you know, it's time to multiply it, man. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. It's so powerful. And even Reinhard Bonnke, uh, we have a researcher on the team and she's been reading all the Reinhard Bonnke books right now, all of them. And she's just sending me quotes of when he mentions multiplication. Um, we just found a quote the other day. Um, it's, uh, I'll, I'll read it to you right now. It's Reinhard Bonnke in his autobiography. And he says, I sensed that my effort will be multiplied through the lives of many others. And then there, there's another quote, um, that she had sent and hopefully I could find it here. I have about a million photos as you do. Exactly. But, but, uh, anyways

You ever heard a conversation between two people, and one person asked the other, whatever happened to Reinhard Bonnke? Because he had been passed away in this dream, and the response was, oh, Reinhard? Reinhard was just the forerunner of a whole generation of Holy Spirit evangelists. And then he woke up from the dream, and he had this dream in Germany. I went to the last conference he spoke at, and then he told Daniel at breakfast that morning, and then Daniel wrote it down. And so how much do you know about Reinhard Bonnke? Not a lot. Not a lot. I did a little research before we had this time, just so I kind of familiarized myself with him, but not a lot. So Reinhard had three dreams in his life. I'll just tell you the two. So the last one is that one where he's projected into the future, where he was the forerunner of a whole generation of Holy Spirit evangelists. The first one was where he did a crusade, and he put a bunch of money into it. This was in 1971, and he set up a huge stage, so on and so forth, speakers, and five people showed up. No one showed up, and he was so disappointed, and he was like, oh, my goodness. In the middle of Africa, anyways, the next night, he goes to sleep, and he has a dream, and he sees Africa being washed from Cape Town to Cairo in the blood of Jesus, and there's a voice that thundered, Africa shall be saved. The next night, he goes to sleep. He has the exact same dream. The next night, he goes to sleep. He has the exact same dream. He goes to his wife and goes, I think I had some bad bananas with his German accent. The next night, he goes to sleep again. He sees Cape Town to Cairo washed in the blood of Jesus with a voice that thundered, Africa shall be saved. That's after he did a crusade where five people showed up. He didn't quit. He went off of that dream, and what ended up happening was 79 million people ended up giving their life to Christ in Africa on written decision cards, actually written decision cards in Africa because he didn't quit, because he believed the Lord spoke to him. And then the final dream he had was that one about his life being a, he's just the forerunner of a whole generation of Holy Spirit evangelists. So anyways, I believe that just like that first dream came to pass, this second dream is coming to pass right now. Yeah. How do you see, I mean, you know, one of the things that Billy Graham, and I think actually D.L. Moody both dealt with, right, when they were doing more of these mass evangelism type campaigns, right? So when you're gathering 400,000 people in a field in Africa to let them hear Jesus, I mean, one of the big sort of pieces that both D.L. and Billy had to solve was, how do, what do I do with all these people after they've accepted Christ, right? What happens? Where do they go? And so what did you see, or did you, I know the, you know, I know the film doesn't necessarily cover it, but I'm wondering just from your experience interacting there, where do those folks go to plug in and really grow in their relationship with Christ? Where does that discipleship happen? I'm so glad you asked that. Okay, so we actually do cover it in the film because this is beautiful. Yeah, yeah. It's called, Reinhard made something called a decision card. And so after someone gives their life to Christ, they raise their hand, thousands of volunteers go into the crowd, and they give them a decision card. The volunteer with them signs all their information. They rip out a piece of it that goes to the person, and then, or it goes to them, and then they get to keep the pamphlet that has all the information about Jesus, who Jesus is, what you believe. Then there's an entire team in that town where they do the crusade that follows up with the local churches, and then they filter the people who have those cards and phone numbers. They give those to the local churches. So now if 100,000 people in the crowd gave their life to Christ, all of those phone numbers are going to churches that are in the area of where those people live. So they're all being filtered into churches, like in an organized strategic way. And actually I was told by Peter Vandenberg, the gentleman who started the Christ for All Nations with Reinhard Bonnke, the eighth largest denomination in the world came from a member who gave their life to Christ in a Reinhard Bonnke crusade in Africa. And it's actually in Nigeria, the name of the denomination. I forgot the name of the denomination, but it was just one member in a 3 million person crowd. And but I love that you asked that question because they're all filtered into local churches. That's really cool. And the same in Brazil. Like you saw a similar system in Brazil, that kind of thing. Yes, yes. So anyone who gave their life to Christ there as well, there, there, there were seven ministries involved with that that funded it. And then they then took all the information and then filtered it out to churches. And a lot of the partners with Ascend were churches. So, so, so, yeah, that, that's the most important thing because the evangelist can catch the fish, but you got to give it to the pastor so that they can fillet it, clean it up. And if you're just catching the fish and you're just going to let it sit there and rot, then that, that's not good. You have to give it to the pastor. Yeah. Very cool. No, I, I just know, I mean, I think the context for me asking that question is just, you know, seeing how DL handled it, seeing how Billy Graham handled it, which is not dissimilar necessarily. I mean, DL obviously went and built schools as well. So he had a couple of schools in Northfield. He had one school in Chicago. Like he, he really went all out on Christian education because he could at that time. But I think it was always sort of on the minds of those who were doing this, that we can't just assume that a profession for Christ is going to, let's say, fall on good soil, right? Like, you know, you've got... That's the whole reason for the parable of the sower. That's right. Right. Like you can't just let them, let them, hey, go back out because that little kernel of faith can be snuffed out in a variety of ways. And so how do you get that depth, the rooting and that kind of stuff? That's really fantastic to hear, man. I mean, the, like, again, I'm familiar with DL Moody only because I work for DL Moody Center. And then I'm familiar with Billy Graham just because I grew up in that era, kind of like you did, you know, watching his old reruns and that kind of stuff. And so you get kind of familiar with what they've done, but I didn't realize it was happening sort of overseas. I didn't realize it was happening in these various other places. So it's just amazing. So as we're doing this, you're really looking at second generation then, you know, sort of almost downstream from Bonnke. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. 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And what we discovered is it's definitely possible when a big ministry actually decides to give the mantle away, like actually give all the secrets away, give all the stuff that they've learned away. I had a friend that actually went into this experimental class. And now the bootcamp, by the way, is just like a perpetual thing. They have classes nonstop. They have like three a year, and they go to Africa. But anyways, there is someone that was in the class that he just had a normal job in America. I think he was a mechanic. And anyways, he went to the bootcamp. Right now, he has a massive ministry. He just did a 250,000-person event in Burundi by himself. He was taught how to raise money, how to get monthly

Just did a 250,000-person crusade detached from the person that taught him. Detached. He's self-sustained now, and that's what we're looking for, people who can actually be their self-sustained, they can actually do this on their own, but it's not just him. There's hundreds of people like that now that are doing this. 50,000-person crusade in Pakistan, 70,000-person in South Africa. Maybe because I'm so in it, I get updates nonstop on this. But as it turns out, this actually works, and so there's actual little Reinhard Bonnkes, there's little Billy Grahams, actually self-sustained because Daniel decided to give the mantle out, and our hope is that ministries around the world would also give the mantle out because this actually works. This actually works, and that's how the whole world is going to hear the gospel. Yeah, that's amazing, man. No, I mean, truly, I mean, the name of the film, obviously, is apt, right? Multipli. When you just think about that, like, training other people to do exactly what you've done completely detached from you, just in different areas of the world, and now you're just sort of managing regions, like, hey, don't go and, you know, fish in some other guy's pond almost. Like, why would you go fish there because the fish have already been caught? So go somewhere else. That's the joke. There's so many evangelists doing these huge crusades right now that they're finding that they're actually stepping on each other's toes. So Daniel actually had to make an app. We have an app now so that you log where you're going to be doing your crusades so that you don't do it on someone else's crusade. That's fantastic. Because people are doing this. Yeah. Yeah. Unbelievable, man. Well, where do you see, I mean, what do you see as sort of the next stage in the evolution of growth with this? I mean, you know, you go through this whole multiplied step. You get people plugged into churches. You know, obviously, it's never an easy road, right? Discipleship is never an easy road. What do you see coming that these churches really need to think about even just beyond multiplied? Obviously, there's this idea of taking up the mantle and let's get more people saved. Let's get more people in the church. But is there anything downstream that you're a little concerned about that you just want to kind of express? I would say, remember back in 2020, all these prophets, they were saying there's a shaking coming and so on and so forth. I think that that's still happening. I think there's going to be more of that. And I believe, this is what I believe, I believe that the fear of God is going to come upon the church, and Christ is going to present himself as King. I fully believe that. He's the Savior. He's the Savior. But I believe he's also going to present himself as King. And when he presents himself as King, it's a whole different story. He's the one with all authority. He can snap his fingers and do anything. You can't even look at him in the face, you'll die. The King. And I believe that a shaking is coming. And I would say, to answer your question, it's time to get on our knees and pray and walk in purity. That's what I actually believe. And if we don't do that, then the shaking is going to come, and then both things are going to be sifted. It's as simple as that. So I believe that prayer is key right now, and the fear of God is about to hit, and it's going to hit in a very strong way. So the name of my production company is Every Nation Will Bow. The reason I named it that is because for three years straight, every day I'd wake up, every single day, I'd wake up. And Jesus would tell me, every nation is going to bow down to me. Every nation, every knee. You can't get out of it. You cannot escape. You can't hide. It doesn't matter what you believe. He's the King. And anyways, he told me, wherever I go, he told me very clearly, he said, Christopher, wherever you go, you tell them this is what's going to happen. Tell them that. So I was like, you know what? I'm going to name the production company Every Nation Will Bow so it's right in front of everyone's face. But I believe that was even like a foreshadowing when he told me that years ago when I named the production company. I believe he's about to start revealing himself in that way that he revealed to me as King. And I believe that's about to hit the church, and we're about to see some crazy stuff happening. I mean like supernatural things, revivals, and an end-time harvest. An end-time harvest that I believe is going to be catapulted by the multiplied movement. You know, it's interesting. Like this topic is one I've been hovering around probably for the last three to six months. I did a study on the Great Commission for a book I just recently wrote. And one of the things that I noticed this time when I was studying it is that it's rooted in Christ's authority. And so, you know, therefore go and make. That therefore leads back to Jesus' authority. He's been given authority over all heaven and earth. And so now is the time to go and make disciples. And part of that making of disciples is teaching people to observe all Christ commanded. And you can almost read that with two different emphases. All Christ commanded, so there's nothing that we shouldn't teach people about what Christ commanded. And I, Jesus, only Jesus. I don't get to tell people what I think. They don't get to observe what I'm doing, right? There's no other teaching beyond what Jesus said. And so it gets to this point where you're like, yeah, the basic message that you find in something like Deuteronomy 6.5 in the Old Testament, right? That it's the Lord alone. That's Deuteronomy 6.4. It's the Lord alone, and we're to give our full allegiance to him. All our heart, all our soul, all our strength. And so it's just a very stark contrast, I think, to the way we normally think of Jesus, which isn't bad either. It's just that if we only think about Jesus in one of these two ways, right, you tend to lose his authority when he's just your friend or when he's just your Savior. You get this sort of more flowery, hippie sort of view of Jesus, right? But the reality is he is demanding loyalty from us. That's the whole point. Like be loyal to Jesus. And so our strategy becomes obedience, right? That's how we live our lives. And so it's just interesting you bring that up because it's one of those things, like I said, that's been coming up in more and more conversations with me over the last three to six months. And it's just sort of a fascinating little way for me to think through the Bible in a much more pointed manner than I guess I have in a lot of my previous work. So I tend to agree with you. I mean, I think we're missing something in this notion of authority and kingship and who is really Christ to the church and how should we respond to that? That's the thing, and I've said this from the beginning. I want the full Jesus. I want the Jesus of the Bible. So I want the Jesus. It's like, you know, the first one of you without sin can cast the first stone. But I also want the Jesus who makes a whip and then whips people out of the temple court. I want both of them. I don't want one. I want the whole Jesus, you know? And I don't know why. There's a lot of people who just want the one Jesus and they want to avoid the other Jesus. No, I want everything. I love, what is it? John chapter 8 where he's fighting with the Pharisees. Your father's the devil. All that stuff. He's arguing with them in the temple courts. I want it all. I want all of Christ. And I think the way to follow Christ is to get the full context of Jesus through all of the scriptures. And I always say this too. TikTok Jesus is not Jesus. If you put your faith in TikTok Jesus, the stuff that they're making up, you're not going to bow down to TikTok Jesus. You're going to bow down to the Jesus of the Bible. There's only one Jesus. It's the Jesus of the Bible. That's it. But yeah, so my whole mentality from the beginning was, I mean, right when I got saved, I would read the Bible and I would go from like these super emotional, compassionate moments of Jesus. And then it would go to him fighting with the Pharisees. And I'd be like, I don't know what I love more. I love both. This guy's awesome. He's awesome in every way. Yeah. No, man, totally with you. And I just think it's, it's a fantastic concept. This idea of multiplied. I think it's obviously a fantastic movement that you're documenting. And I think just overall, my prayer would be that this would catch fire in the American church in the same way. It seems to be catching fire in these other places because we definitely need it. We need something to light a match underneath us and, and shake us away from, you know, some of the things that I think we're probably trusting too much in to really get back to the simple fact that Christ is Lord and, and our strategy is obedience and we should be proclaiming him at every possible moment in word and deed. And, and that there are people around the world right now, not necessarily in America. And I know that that can be problematic for

the understanding of what this means, like how to go about doing it. And so just really encouraging, man, to see the movement documented and to hear you talk about it is just awesome. And so thanks for coming on the show, bro. Any last words you want to say to the folks before we close up here? Yeah. First off, thank you for having me. Seriously, this is amazing. Amazing host, seriously. I would just give one more shout out to Multiply will be in theaters on May 20th and 21st. And you can get tickets. Tickets are on sale right now at FathomEvents.com. Let's do this thing. FathomEvents.com and everybody seriously, go see this movie. All the links will be in the show notes. And so just click through, go grab a ticket and it's going to be awesome. So Chris, thanks for being here, bro. And really appreciate having you and appreciate the work that you're doing and good luck with everything. I don't know, good luck sounds so trite. I'm going to change that. Blessings to you and everything that you're doing. And I'll be praying and hoping for the second season to come out. I just think it's awesome, the work you're getting to do. So thanks a lot, bro, for being here. And thanks, everybody, for hanging out with us. We'll catch you on the next episode of Thinking Christian. Just want to take a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast. If you go to LifeAudio.com, you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more. Hi, I'm Rachel Adams, host of the Love Offering podcast, where we explore how to live out the greatest commandment, to love God, love others, and even love ourselves. Each week, my guests and I share stories of how God's love transforms us and overflows into the lives of those around us. Whether through small acts of kindness or powerful moments of faith, we're learning how to make love our greatest offering. Tune in to the Love Offering podcast available on lifeaudio.com and all podcast platforms.