The Potential Spiritual Dangers of "AI Jesus"

Hello everyone, I'm Richard Beattie. On this edition of Thinking Christian with Dr. James Spencer. Today we have a guest from American Family Association in Mississippi. AFA has a lot of reach in the culture. Ed Batagliano is executive vice president with AFA. He has been an award-winning journalist for The Stand, the organization's monthly publication with a circulation of approximately 160,000. He has also written and directed a number of documentaries for American Family Studios, a division of AFA. James, this is going to be an interesting conversation as we continue our talk about artificial intelligence. Yeah, I mean, artificial intelligence has been such a big moving target lately. And the latest sort of issue that we've run into as Christians, at least, is AI Jesus. And so I'm interested to dig in here with Ed and just talk a little bit about AI Jesus and see what's going on there and get Ed's perspective on this whole vast issue that everybody is having to deal with as we move into the era of artificial intelligence. Yeah, you know, it's sounding like another rebel golem or Frankenstein sometimes, a new AI program that calls itself Ask I Jesus, is streaming on, of all things, the gaming platform Twitch. The voice identifies itself as I am AI Jesus. It claims to share wisdom based on Jesus' teachings while answering questions on spiritual faith issues, personal growth, and other topics. Richard and James, it's a pleasure to be with you today. Yeah, thanks, Ed, for being here. And, you know, I'll just start off with what seems to be an obvious question, but maybe it's not. What do you know what sources the AI Jesus uses to answer its questions as it's interacting with folks? I'm not a tech guy, but it's a program, a coding of the people who do the coding for the singularity group. This is kind of this AI Jesus is the brainchild of that group and it streams on the gaming platform Twitch, which gives you some indication that this is for entertainment purposes. So my understanding is that the people in charge of either writing the code or having the AI do some of the coding on its own once it's been set up to do that, the AI goes out and searches the internet and selects as many sources as possible to try to put together what it thinks Jesus would say in answer to a lot of questions. Some of them are, I think, pretty silly, which is what you would expect for something that is a gaming platform, non-serious, I don't mean to be insulting to gamers, but it's for entertainment. So it's not the singularity group itself that goes out and tries to collect what it thinks Jesus would say in answer to certain questions. It's the AI itself, the artificial intelligence, just like ChatGPT, you just ask it a question, it immediately goes out and searches and gives you an answer. So not being a tech guy, I probably made a lot of tech people who are listening, their heads spin off, but I think in general, that's how this operates. But there isn't even a sense in which AI Jesus is really just drawing from scripture or even the gospels. It's drawing from sort of a broader swath of, let's say, information on the internet, whether that's a conservative Christian, whether that's a liberal Christian, whether that's secular, whether that's, you know, what have you. It's not discriminating then on what information it's using to, let's say, reconstruct Jesus' voice, is that? Yeah, I think that's right, and I think reconstruct is exactly the right way to put it. So if you're a conservative Southern Baptist, your particular view of your church is probably going to be included. I would expect it would. But you're going to have, you know, United Methodists, Episcopalian, you're going to have Presbyterians. You're going to have the Dan Brown, you know, Da Vinci Code wing of the internet is going to chime in. And so reconstructing what Jesus would be like in 2023, I think is a great way of describing how this, I presume, works. Reese Lason of Singularity, he says that, we've also seen overwhelming response from people, Christian as well as non-Christians or non-religious, who genuinely find it inspiring and comforting. Lason continues, it's a very modern interpretation of Jesus that always provides wholesome and uplifting feedback no matter the question. I mean, let's just think about for a moment why it's problematic to have a very modern interpretation of Jesus that is both inspiring and comforting. I mean, Ed, how would you interpret some of that language? Well, certainly Jesus can be inspiring and comforting, but he's also convicting and challenging. And he also tears down ideologies and worldviews that are, I would say, problematic, that sinful might be better or deluded or idolatrous. So if you want inspiring and comforting, then I would think an AI Dr. Phil would be more to the point. But you're not going to get the full picture if your goal is to, I think, Richard, as you were reading this co-founder, Reese Lason, providing wholesome and uplifting feedback. Well, there's nothing about what Jesus says that I would say is not wholesome, but uplifting, you know, that's not a biblical description because the Word of God, and Jesus is the Word, interrogates our lives. And I've never been in a courtroom setting where I've been interrogated by an attorney or a prosecutor, but I would imagine that can be very uncomfortable. And the Word of God does that. God makes us uncomfortable because there's nothing about the fallen nature that should make us comfortable in the presence of a holy God. And so while Jesus always went out of his way to eat with sinners, for example, he did so not to provide uplifting feedback, but to call them to the kingdom of God. And that requires walking through the narrow door and walking on the pathway that few tread on. So I'm going to ask the obvious questions. Instead of asking a percentage, are there any biblical answers in this AI Jesus? I read from the article on Fox News what some of the answers were, but I found the whole idea of it so offensive. I certainly think artificial intelligence is not going away. This genie is not going to be put into the bottle, back into the bottle. But this was particularly offensive to me simply because it seems, and again, I don't want to be overly dramatic, but it seems to me to be an exercise of prodding a product that is of the spirit of antichrist. So, and I don't see the spirit of antichrist under every bush too. I want to make that clear. But when the apostle John in first John talks about the spirit of antichrist, he says the antichrist is coming, but many antichrists have gone out into the world. And these, this spirit actively seeks to deny the biblical reality of Jesus Christ. So this AI Jesus, while it may just seem to the singularity group, just something fun to do, is incredibly spiritually dangerous. And so I didn't, I mean, I really did. I thought about it. I thought about maybe I should see what kind of answers it gives. But to me, it was almost using a Ouija board for kicks. Because I think that there is a demonic push and it's something that will become, I think, more and more clear as people begin to use AI for spiritual purposes. I just know that the devil is an opportunist and I just think it's spiritually dangerous other than for journalistic purposes. I can see where someone might participate in this to see what kind of answers they got. I just think it's spiritually very dangerous and I just would encourage Christians to take a hard pass on interacting with AI Jesus.

I mean, as you're talking there, Ed, I think, you know, I'm not prone to identifying the Antichrist behind every bush either, and so I understand what you're saying, and I appreciate the reticence you are conveying in sort of, you know, naming the Antichrist in this vein. To me, as we look at this AI Jesus, one of the big problems is that it's sort of, number one, I think it ignores the fact that Jesus is actually present to us anyway, as if we needed something else to mediate between us and Christ. You know, the Holy Spirit does that in the life of the believer. And so I don't really necessarily need an AI to help me hear the voice of Jesus. You know, I can read God's Word myself. We have Bibles accessible everywhere. You know, I'm not sure that I need these deep, dark secrets that the AI is going to give to me. And I think the other side of it is, you know, that we are essentially making connecting with Jesus easy. Now, I say that sort of in quotes, connecting with Jesus, but I do think that there's a sense in which AI Jesus makes our efforts to read and study the Scriptures much easier, and that creates a complacency and a sort of dependency that really is going to end up harming the church as opposed to helping the church. And I would say, and I don't know, maybe you agree, but, you know, we have a lot of organizations, let's say, like Answers in Genesis or, you know, Reasons to Believe or, you know, any Bible college, seminary, you know, a lot of radio programs, etc., etc., that try to help believers understand the Word of God, but they're not trying to replace the voice of Jesus. And I would say that's a pretty important distinction. And I'm kind of wondering what your reflection on that might be. I think it's a great way to put it, saying that AI Jesus, you run the risk of it mediating. That's a perfect word for this. Mediating, but also clearly the danger would be distorting the voice of Jesus. You know, it occurs to me as you were talking, Jesus himself said that he told, taught in parables oftentimes, and this may be difficult for us to understand it. I'm not sure I completely understand it either, but he said he told, he taught in parables because it would hide the truth from some people, and it would, for others, I assume, people who really wanted to know what Jesus meant, they would dig in and they would try, you know, as the disciples did. They went up to Jesus and said, why do you speak to the people in parables? And they wanted to know more. They were driven to do the hard work of finding out what Jesus meant with some of his hard sayings and some of the sayings that were couched in parables. And I do think that if, I do think it tends to work against the church if everything is bumper sticker quality and everything is just a meme. I mean, we already have that. We already run that risk now with Facebook and other things on the internet. We are called to pursue God and to want to, you know, to seek God as one would seek for silver. You read the Psalms and the Proverbs, find those kinds of sayings. You seek him with all your heart. And AI Jesus, setting aside the risk of deception, promoting a false Jesus, even if that wasn't there, you would run the risk of, well, I want to see what AI Jesus has to say, and this is just a bunch of code. This is artificial intelligence coded to go out and try to synthesize an answer to a question. You are interacting with a code and not a flesh and blood live person. When you go to your pastor or depending on what your church structure is, ecclesiastical structure, you go to a deacon or an elder or a bishop or whatever. You're going to a flesh and blood person who we assume is anointed by God to help you on your walk or in your walk. And that goes for, you know, Christian writers and teachers and professors at Bible colleges and so on. These are people who are called and anointed by God as flesh and blood representatives and members of the body of Christ to help you. And I don't think that that can be replaced by an AI. When we come back on Thinking Christian with Dr. James Spencer, we speak with motivational coach Shana Rattler. I'm Richard Beatty, and this is Thinking Christian. Welcome back to Thinking Christian. Here's Dr. James Spencer. The ministry of Shana Rattler, a publisher, author, and speaker for the God Shift movement. I met Shana at the National Religious Broadcasters Conference in Orlando in May. And something about Shana's enthusiasm for ministry just got my attention. And so your biography says that you transform Christian lives from the page to the platform. You're the founder of a God Shift movement, and you're an author and speaker who empowers individuals and organizations worldwide to experience a God shift that moves them into a greater destiny, expectancy, and possibility. And so I guess my first question is, can you just describe the God Shift movement, what it is, and how you sort of discovered it? Absolutely. So my definition of a God Shift, James, is the moment of disruption in your life collides with God's purpose, but then that moves you into greater realms of possibility. And it's the unexpected circumstances that God allows to happen in our lives to get our attention so that he can then invite us into what it is that he has planned for us. And for myself, back in 2018, I was a very successful business owner. I was speaking all over the world, making lots of money, and all of a sudden everything dried up. And for the sake of time, I'll just fast forward and say the Lord was using that to get my attention because he was calling me to ministry. And if he would have allowed everything in my life to operate business as usual, there's absolutely no way that I would have ever paid attention to the fact that he was asking me to get into ministry. And so I discovered, like, the Lord allows things to happen in our lives. He's very strategic about what he allows to happen in our lives. And for me, I've just kind of committed myself to the mission of, how do I help believers learn how to successfully navigate these seasons of life? Because I don't think pastors, and I'm a preacher, so I can talk bad about us a little bit, but I don't know that we always do the best job of helping us to identify why things happen in our lives and, more importantly, how to respond to that. And so that's kind of what a God shift is. It's really teaching you, how do you navigate those difficult seasons of life so that you can fully experience God's power and manifest your fullest potential. And so as you're helping people sort of navigate those difficult aspects of life, you know, obviously, you know, there's going to be some hard things that are going to keep you where you are, you know, sort of almost confirm your calling. And then there's going to be hard things that may jump you out into something different. I know I've had those. I've had both sorts of experiences. How do you actually help people discern what God is doing in their lives? What all does that entail? Purpose leaves clues. And when we look back over our lives at all of the different assignments that we've had, all of the different challenges that we've had, we're usually able to identify that things are not just happening to us, they're happening for us, and oftentimes they're happening for us to be able to help other people through that as well. And so I usually start by asking people, like, what are you sensing? Not what do you know, because a lot of times we're not going to know. I like to say, do you have to really know? If what it is that you're sensing that God is asking you to do is not contrary to what the Bible says, can you just take a step and see how God responds? He's like the best GPS. Because sometimes I think we know whether the Lord is calling us out of something and into something else, if he's asking us to let go of people, just need to pause and take a break. Sometimes we have a real good sensing, even if it's not a knowing, of what it is that God is doing in our lives. I usually go back to what are some of the different assignments you've had? What are some of the different challenges you've had? And then I'm really able to pinpoint, why might he be using this? What are the things that he has been using the common thread to kind of string along through your life that is probably a good indication of where it is that he might need you next or what it is that he might need you to become next? Part of it sounds like, you know, you're really looking over a person's life story and trying to identify those aspects of where God has been moving in their lives across time. How much of that has to do with their own individual gifts and talents? I mean, we're all sort of gifted. God has given us things. And I think a lot of, it took me a long time at least to realize that this isn't about me and my capacity. It's about what God has given me to use. And just that little shift in orientation really helped me then think through, okay, where does God want me? Where should I be?

and I like what you said, sensing sort of where God is pushing a bit, where God is leading, pushing, however we want to say it. How do you work with people to really help them discover their gifts, their talents, the keys to recognizing the purpose? Sometimes I ask them to take a step back from, I call them their stats, your skills, talents, abilities, and gifts. Because the number one question that we have a tendency to ask God is, what is it that you want me to do? And many times when God is asking us to shift, the first thing he wants you to do is recognize who am I asking you to become? Because he's not going to give you anything to do if you don't have the qualities and the characteristics that it is going to take to be able to sustain that. Because we're doers, right? And I don't think it's any coincidence that we're called human beings and not human doings. So I always tell people, we'll get to the point of what is your capacity. We'll get to the point of what are you great at. But sometimes we can really miss what it is that God is doing in our lives if we jump to, now what is it that I'm good at and what is it that I should do? And I ask my people, the definition of becoming for me is like amplifying your strengths and shedding your weaknesses. And so once we kind of identify where is God taking us or why is he using what he's using, the number one thing I say is, how ready are you for that? How prepared are you for what it is that you've been praying for? Because once we solve that, I say solve it like it's a mystery, but once we address that, oftentimes the doing takes care of itself or we're in a better position to be able to attract the doing into our lives. But if I immediately allow them to go down the rabbit hole of what should I do, they're not going to be still and we can't first follow instructions that we can't hear. So the very first thing I try to get to the root of is like, who do you need to be in this next season? And we'll eventually get to what it is that you should do. That's really good. I went through executive coaching when I was working in Christian higher education and I think my unique weaknesses that I ended up having to slough off were impatience and a lack of vulnerability. Like I didn't want to show any sort of weakness at all and I was always in a hurry to achieve that next thing. Do you find a fairly common thread of people being a little bit conditioned to want to move forward so quickly that they're unwilling to do this sort of work? And I'll sort of frame that question in this. We had a conversation with Daryl Strawberry and he talked about after his conversion just spending these sort of years alone almost with his Bible, being discipled, learning what it meant to be a Christian. You know, he attributed this to his wife before she ever let him out, go and talk to other people and really build the kingdom. And it was just such a fascinating story to think through how patient he had to be, somebody coming from the limelight that he'd been in to now going into this very slow period where he's just allowing God to work on him. And so I guess I'm wondering, you know, sort of from that conversation to this one, is patience a big problem? Is vulnerability a big problem? You know, am I an odd duck or is that pretty common? You're not an odd duck at all. And you kind of said it a little bit in the phrasing of your question is, are we conditioned to jump to the doing? Our achievements can actually keep us stuck because God can't bless you there with what he had for you back there. And although nothing will be wasted, all of the gifts that we have and all of the abilities. Listen, I was in the marketplace for years. I was teaching business owners how to land corporate contracts and how to land corporate sponsors. I was a strategy girl and I was afraid that when I said yes to ministry, that I had to say no to that. And what I realized was I don't really have to worry about my gifts and my skills and my abilities because nothing is going to be wasted. God uses us in phases. And so all of those things are going to follow me into the new. But if I am not willing to, it's almost like a horse that's in a race. You know, they have those blinders on so they only see what's in front of them. If we're so involved in thinking about our past achievements and what it is that we're capable of, we're not really able to see where it is that we're going. Because I can tell you that when I was being called to ministry, I made the grave mistake, James, of taking the new vision that God gave me and filtering it through old perspective. Because the new vision that he gave me was I'll preach and teach in stadiums. I'll have a television show. I'll use my gifts to be a voice for Jesus, for celebrities and politicians. But I've been a coach for so long that I immediately came home and created a coaching business. So it's a great mistake to make, but it's an easy mistake to make. Because when you've been in an industry a certain amount of time, when you've done something a certain way, then you filter everything through that lens and you can really be off on a wrong path very quickly. And so, yes, it's a major, major barrier to getting to what it is that heaven really has for us. It's sort of fascinating. I was when I taught, I'd teach a class called On Interpreting Scripture. And one of the things I encouraged students to think through was what are the influences in your life that are going to either hinder you from seeing God's word more faithfully or help you see God's word more faithfully? Now, most of them do a little bit of both. Right. But one of the areas I talked to him about is something I think you're just describing. I called it the subject. And really what I meant was if you're, you know, in my context, they were a biblical studies major. You know, that discipline is going to frame your thinking in a very particular way. That's going to be very helpful in a lot of ways, but also kind of hindering. And once you get stuck in that rut, if you can't sort of break out of that box a little bit and begin to see other possibilities and allow God to use those other possibilities to inform your thinking, you're really just going to be tunnel vision, you know, walking through life, missing some of the things that God would have us do. I think it's a fantastic way of thinking about it. Yeah. I wasted a lot of time. I wasted a lot of money and a Godship could probably be a lot further along than what it is if I would have given at least a version of the vision to bless. You know, I could have said, you know what, I know by the time I get back to Dallas because I was on a spiritual retreat when I got this revelation of what this was going to consist of. I knew that God could have all these things waiting in my inbox by the time I got back to Dallas, but I figured that probably wasn't likely. I asked myself, well, what do I tell my business owner clients to do? I was telling them, the Lord will bless what you put your hands to, so you have to be in action. And that's true. We do have a role to play in being in some level of action. But he told me television, stadiums, celebrities and politicians, and I was up here creating five day challenges and free opt-ins. And it was like, wait, why didn't I come home and like create a YouTube show and see what he blessed with that? And so we have to at least give a version of the vision to bless if we're going to assist him in being in some level of action. So I think it's really interesting. One of the questions I had was sort of what, and I know you have a sort of story about how you move from one industry into ministry, right? But how did you really come to that purpose and calling? You mentioned the spiritual retreat. What did that entail? Is that, you know, just describe that experience for us. I think a lot of people don't maybe don't have a good feel for what that might look like. I first wanted to distinguish the difference between four words that I think we use interchangeably that cost us to be in this middle space longer than perhaps we need to. That's the difference between assignment, calling, purpose and destiny. And we hear those words like they're the same thing, but they're not. Your assignment is who you help. And that could potentially change with the seasons. Your calling is how you help them. Your purpose is why are you here? What's the impact that you are designed to have? And your destiny is where your purpose takes you. And so when I was on that retreat, I was trying to get real still like, okay, Lord, you know, I've seen all the indications. I've seen all the confirmations that you're actually pulling me out of the marketplace and into ministry. But I want to spend some time being quiet and being still about what that is going to consist of. Now that's Thinking Christian. I'm Richard Beatty. We'll see you next week. Many of us feel hurried. Did you know that being in a hurry is costing us more than we realize? Hi, I'm Jem Fadling, co-host of Unhurried Living, where my husband Alan and I help people learn to live and lead from fullness rather than on empty. We provide resources and training to teach you healthy patterns for rest, work, and spiritual connection. With more than 25 years of experience at the intersection of spiritual formation and leadership development, Unhurried Living seeks to inspire others to rest deeper, live