About this episode
Are you someone who takes time to think and process, rather than rushing to make decisions? In a world filled with distractions, being able to consciously determine how you're going to spend your time, who you're going to spend it with, and why you're going to do certain things is a gift. In this episode, Dr. James Spencer and Richard Arnold Beattie have a thoughtful conversation on Christian resistance and what it means in time and space.
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Transcript
We need a space to have the sort of slow, deliberate dialogues that reflect our deep conviction that discerning the Spirit is crucial to offering faithful testimony. That's the voice and words of Dr. James Spencer. And I must say, James, by taking time to talk about things helps me to resist knee-jerk reactions and allows me to listen deeply in my motivation, approach, and the power of collaboration. We are avoiding the monologues that escalate to rage and have people wondering, Is that what being Christian looks like? Keep calm and act like a Christian. I should do that in a British voice. When you wrote that, you obviously were not on deadline. So how do we make time when we are constantly rushed to make swift decisions and are solicited for our opinions? Well, I think, yeah, I wrote that. It's actually a quote from my book, Thinking Christian. And I would say that, you know, when I wrote it, I was taking a lot of time just to think and process. I'd come out of a fairly fast-paced career. I was in distance education. And in the world of distance education, enrollment is king. And you usually ran from, you know, one enrollment period to the next. And as soon as you got one class enrolled, you were already looking ahead to try to get the next class of students enrolled. We ran eight-week sessions. And so we would do sprints, you know, sort of every eight weeks. You were always looking forward to the next enrollment period and hoping that you'd hit your targets. So, you know, that was a really fast-paced environment. And despite higher education's reputation, maybe, for moving at a snail's pace, you know, the enrollment world was really fast-paced and moved out of higher education and got away from that sort of pace. What I realized was that I hadn't really been taking the sort of time that would reflect the conviction that, you know, it matters that we discern what the Spirit is doing. It matters that we think about what it means to offer faithful testimony. I just wasn't doing it. And I think, in part, I wasn't doing it because I got caught up in the inertia of it all. You know, we make assumptions, and I think we sometimes have to make these assumptions. So we make assumptions that what we're doing at any given moment is what needs to be done. And that, you know, maybe the mission of the institution or our career path or, you know, whatever it may be that we're filling our schedule up with, that there are a number of different things that simply have to be done. We can't avoid them. And I think that's probably a wrong assumption. Yeah, and that's where we get tempted, and we have to resist the busyness of life and get into the more meaningful things and the thoughtful and reflective things that really matter. That's right. I think, you know, there's a way in which, you know, not taking that time, not taking the time to sort of step back and say, You know, God, am I still on the right path? Is this what you would have me do? Really seeking out and searching for the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, the guidance that God can provide us. I think what we do is we end up taking God for granted. And, you know, those assumptions can be dangerous. So the book of James talks about them a little bit. You know, James warns people not to say, Hey, I'm going to go here and do this thing tomorrow. He says, Instead, you should be saying, If God wills, we will go here and there and do such and such. And his point is not, Hey, never engage in long-term planning. Right. That's not what he's saying. What he's really saying is, Let's not assume more than we know. And let's make sure that as we talk about what it is that we are planning to accomplish, that God is part of that planning and that, you know, our worldview, the way we imagine that the world makes sense, includes God's active presence within it. And God can turn us on a dime whenever he feels like it. And so I tend to think that what we really need to do is we need to recalibrate our sense of urgency. We need to recalibrate what what we view as important. And to do that, we really just have to ask ourselves some simple questions like, you know, does God matter more than fill in the blank? And if we answer anything is more important than God, we're probably headed in the wrong direction. And so, you know, God needs to be infinitely more important such that, you know, he demands our attention, commands our attention, requires our attention. And, and honestly, we just want to give him our attention at any given moment of any given day. And so that, that sort of slower pace, those moments that we can take to step back and really consider what it is that God wants from us, what it is that God is doing in our lives. I think they're a demonstration of our acknowledgement that God matters more, infinitely more than anything else we encounter. You know, I think about history and the context of time and as a writer and a journalist who is a Christian, you know, maybe it's the, maybe it's the wrong, I like what you say about being Christian first. You know, I'm trained to interpret what events meant at the time they happened and what they mean to people at the time they happened. And then what the same reports or accounts mean to us today. And that's the way to interpret history. You know, there's a, there's debate on whether that's the way to interpret the Bible. Then there's that space between the time they happened and our time. And we read, listen, and sometimes view these events by how they've been interpreted throughout time. For the early church to the church today and everything in between, what it means to be Christian throughout time has changed throughout time. Where do we begin? Well, I think, you know, the, the easy and maybe the Christian answer is we begin with Christ. But I would also say as a good Old Testament theologian, we go back and we begin with that first Testament. We begin with the Old Testament and understanding, you know, what it looked like for God to create the world, what it looked like for people to rebel against God and the implications of that and how ultimately God continued to act and remain faithful to a people who were unfaithful to him. As we move then toward Christ and we start to think about how Christ should change the way we reckon time. Let's say it like that. He should change the way we understand and evaluate time. I think what we begin to see is that, you know, because God is moving in and among us, our time is really his time. Our time is dedicated to him and following him is never a quote unquote waste of time. Let's say, but I would also say that in addition to starting with the Bible, right. And with that first Testament, working our way all the way through Christ and into the rest of the New Testament. One of the things we also have to remember is that we are always going to, as as historian Johan Huizinga, he was a Dutch historian. He talked about the definition of history. And essentially what he said was it's the imposition of form on the past. And the general idea there was that, you know, he's saying everybody looks back from a particular perspective. Everyone has a framework that they're going to apply to events in the past. And that framework is going to be influential for how we think about bridging between our past and our present. And so we need to be developing a framework that looks back through the New Testament, through the cross. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed with inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty. More families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579 through Christ, through the Old Testament, so that we can understand our histories in light of all that Christ did. And so we've got to begin from a theological starting point. We have to begin not from a perspective.
of general values and norms or universal principles or anything like that. I think this needs to be a deeply theological starting point where we're really and truly understanding all of the decisions that have been made. And I mean, even particularly, the decision that was made by Christ, who decided that equality with God was not something to be used to his own advantage, but humbled himself and came down and took the form of a servant. That decision in past time of eternity, right? Should frame the way that we understand our experience now. It has an implication for us. It's a past event, but it has an implication for us. And so I think if we're talking about time from that sense of the past, the present, and the future, that theological starting point is absolutely crucial. How we spend our time is kind of like how and when and where we spend our money. It measures what's important to us. When we take time to talk about what is important to us and what is important to others, our family, our colleagues, and our neighbors, does that change the way we look at what really is important in the context of time? Yeah, I mean, I think it absolutely does. And I would say that's particularly becoming particularly important in today's world. Unlike past eras, this has been true, I think, for all eras, right? How we spend our time, how we spend our money are roughly equal. Both of them convey a sense of priority. They convey a sense of how we understand what is important in the world and how we're making sense of the world around us. And so I think that's been true throughout time. But like any given era, there are always going to be factors that amplify certain problems and maybe begin to minimize others. And I think in our era, the attention economy has become a real stimulus for us to waste our time. And so as companies compete for our attention, as they are making economic gains based on how many eyeballs view a video, based on how many people subscribe and like, based on how many people share. And really, when we talk about our time, it's hard not to also think about our attention. So our time and our attention in that moment, we're making real decisions based on information and stories that we are being given by other people. And so the attention economy has sort of ramped up the danger or the possibilities, let's say, of wasting our time, of thinking that something is more important than maybe it is. And so, yeah, I think there's a really important aspect of this in our time that we need to make space and actually say to ourselves, I am no longer going to be convinced that spending my time scrolling Facebook, scrolling Instagram, looking at the news, you know, following a 24-hour news cycle that tends not to say that much. You know, whatever it is, right, whatever it is that we're talking about there, that I am not going to allow those places to compete for my attention. I'm going to take the time and give it to the Lord. I'm going to give my attention. I'm going to give my time to the Lord. And so in past eras, I think we really talked about this in terms of serving, right, volunteering at your church, serving in your church, you know, doing those kind of things. But I think in our era, while those other aspects of service and church attendance and those kind of things are still very important, you know, this has become a much more ever-present issue for us because there are all of these different things that are competing for our attention. We've got to make sure that whatever it is that we give our attention to is helping us to point to and magnify God. There's a story about a missionary, and I always love this story, and I don't know who it's attributed to, but they lived in a military state. And, you know, I'm thinking about this and I'm thinking about what's happening in Gaza right now. It was under martial law. Your priorities of time are totally different in those kind of situations. And I think sometimes our freedom of time and the choices that we make in time, you know, when you don't have that, it's a whole different outlook. This woman would go for walks in the early morning, and every morning a guard would yell, stop! Who are you and what are you doing here? And in her quiet time, she said that those were the most pressing answers in her daily devotion. What a way to spend your time. Yeah, what am I doing here, right? So who am I and what am I doing here and why? The first time she asked the guard if he would ask her that question every day. But talk about directed devotion, right? But she, you know, she passed that area every day, and he probably was going to ask her that question every day anyhow because it was his job. Is that a good place to start with our prayer life? You know, I actually really think it is. You know, when I teach the Old Testament, generally what I tell students is that the Old Testament, and I think the Bible more generally, answers three pretty crucial questions. Number one, who is God? Number two, who are we? And number three, what are the implications for us that God is who he is, that we are who we are, and that we live in relation to one another? And so this idea of who am I, what am I doing here, and why I think is a really important question because it dives into some pretty deep theological areas. You know, who am I? Well, I'm a human being made in the image of God, chosen to proclaim his excellencies. I mean, I love the way 1 Peter talks about that. You know, we are called, we are a chosen people, a holy nation, who are sent out into the world to proclaim the excellencies of Christ. And so that's who we are. You know, what am I doing here? Well, I'm sort of suffering, probably, under martial law. I'm not feeling too great about what I'm, you know, I'm not feeling too great about all of this. You know, my situation might be better, but at the same time, what am I doing here? I'm here to make sure that people see Christ shining through me. I'm here to reflect the image of God. I'm here to worship. I am here to expand the glory of God on this planet, regardless of my circumstances. And why is always a pretty simple answer, I think. You know, why is because we really have no other choice. I mean, as a people who believe that Jesus suffered, died, was resurrected, ascended, and glorified, he is the only person who has ever had a life that resulted in those things. He's the only person who's ever had a life that resulted in resurrection, ascension, and glorification. There's no other choice but to follow him. There's no other choice but to imitate him. And so the things that we do, we do because Jesus was vindicated. And that vindication demonstrates his conquering over sin and death, which is our basic problem. We've always had a sin problem. We can't conquer it ourselves. And so the why, I think, is a fantastic place to start. So it gets into ideas of, you know, helping us pray through and praise God for who he is, praise God for what he has done, ask God for help as we reflect him to a watching world, and gives us a moment to remember that we're here for a purpose and that that purpose often puts us in uncomfortable situations that push us to depend on God. You're listening to Thinking Christian with Dr. James Spencer. When we come back, we will think and talk about some questions that will be helpful in understanding and working towards thinking Christian and Christian resistance. Hey, friends, Nicole Eunice here from the How to Study the Bible podcast. I want to invite you to experience a fresh look at the story of Joseph and what it means for you today. Life can totally throw us for a loop, whether it's your family or your marriage, work, church, or something else entirely. Maybe you have found yourself in a season that you never would have expected and that you certainly wouldn't have signed up for. In this six-week Bible study together, we're going to talk about the biblical story of Joseph, a man who lived an unexpected life and trusted God through it all. We'll talk about the blessings he experienced, the promises God keeps, the way that tests of our character can actually refine our faith. We'll talk about patience. We'll talk about loss.
Absolutely talk about redemption. So come join us for the six-week series over on the How to Say the Bible podcast. Can't wait to dive in with you.
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