The Sanctity of Life and Pro-Love Ministries with Pam Whitehead

Christians need to stop listening to the world and start listening to God, so the thinking Christian becomes as natural as breathing. Welcome to The Thinking Christian podcast. This is Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful, theological conversations, Thinking Christian offers a mix of interviews and discussions that highlight the ways God is working in the lives of his people and question the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that keep the church from conforming more closely to the image of Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey everyone, this is Dr. James Spencer and you're listening to Thinking Christian. On today's episode, we have a guest host, Maggie Hubbard. Maggie works with me at Useful to God and was my co-host on our previous podcast, Faithful and Plod. In this episode, Maggie continues her conversation with Executive Director of Pro-Love Ministries, Pam Whitehead. I hope you enjoy the conversation and look forward to being back with you on the next episode of Thinking Christian. A lot changed for me immediately, radically, but not so much for my husband. Right. It was a slow process. He even at one point said, I feel like you're having an affair. Yeah, because you were so devoted. Yeah, the intimacy that I had with God because I just knew that whatever I want to do is probably not the right thing. So I'm just going to do what these people at this church are asking me to do. Right. And I blindly followed, you know, and some people think, well, that's not necessarily a good thing. Well, I can tell you for me, it was right. I needed a lot of people. It was a non-denominational church. At that moment, it probably wouldn't have mattered what church I walked into. Right. It was just the divine appointment because it's not really so much about that as it was that God met me right where I was. Exactly. And, you know, it's funny because people talk about religion and not religion and denominations and this and that. And I really don't get into that with people because I'm like, God is going to meet you right where you are and show you and give you exactly what you need. It's just up to us to grab hold of it. Right. And for a while, I could say, yeah, I did have religion. I was pretty legalistic. You know, I mean, I needed guardrails. I was a wild colt out there just running a mustang, running crazy. Right. And I needed to be bridled. Mm hmm. Yeah. And so, like, I didn't I didn't watch television for five years. I didn't listen to anything except for Christian music. I didn't read any books except what was suggested by our church, not another church, not some podcaster or or, you know, sermon on YouTube, but just the books that were recommended in the church that I was attending. That's you like how obedient. Yeah. And you needed that, right? Because it was like you knew your past. You knew how you could slip. And like, you needed to be that structured. Yeah. That's that's awesome. And about a year after getting to this church, I went to this, we call it that encounter God weekend. It's a three day, you know, encounter with God. It would be like an actress retreat in the Catholic church or, you know, some of these other inner healing, you know, retreats that people go to. And I went to that, that encounter about a year after being at the church. And I remember thinking there were a lot of things that I didn't share because I just had so much. And I'm looking at these people and again, I'm in this situation where it's a different situation, but I still felt the same. And that if they really knew me, they wouldn't even want me here. You know, even after I'm in the word of God, I'm worshiping, I'm serving. Regeneration of the heart is a big deal. Yeah. You know, sanctification is ongoing and that process started at the altar, but it doesn't end until I get to heaven. Right. And I am at this retreat and they start talking about like open doors in your life of sin, you know, whether it's your sin, someone else's sin, like iniquity, or if it's sin that you've, you committed that kind of open you up to damage and leave you at a place where you'll see like the evidence of it in your life. And one of those things was abortion. And they brought it up. And for 10 years, Maggie, I had not considered that abortion. Wow. When that thing happened, when all that happened to me, I put that somewhere and I just left it there. Yeah. I didn't talk about it to anybody. I didn't share the, uh, the experience I had with anyone. I just put it there and left it. Tucked it away. Yes, here I was in this church with these good Christian people who were so full of life and full of the spirit and just beautiful, beautiful people. And they bring this up and I thought, I am not about to tell these sweet Christian ladies about that. Right. I'm not doing it. And God said, what? And I'm telling you, he would not let me go. And that day I repented of that abortion and my mind changed about it. Because even up until that point, I was still one of those people who was, well, I'll never do that again, but I'm not going to tell anyone else what to do. Right. It's between them. And there are a lot of people. Yes. Yeah. And there are a lot of good Christian people out there who are just like that. You know, it's not my place. Right. So my walk started then and it's still going today. And my husband and I are on site today. My husband is a pastor. He got fully delivered and set free from his alcohol and drug addiction. Okay, that's what I was going to ask. Is it the husband that you met and remarried? Wow. What a story. We have been together 26 years through everything. We stuck it out and we didn't give up on each other. Wow. And there were times when it did. It felt like we didn't have anyone else. And again, whether that's healthy or not, I don't know. But today we're fortified and God is strengthening us. He's using everything that was meant for evil for good. We run a recovery ministry in our church. My husband goes back into the prison and he ministers to men there. He goes into the same rehab where he was set free and he ministers there. And I'm doing the work that I do today as well. And look what God can do, right? Only God. Yep. And we fully surrendered to him. I mean, look at that. And so you have your two girls, right? Yes. Yeah. My daughter, my oldest is 24. She actually just graduated Texas State University. Going to be teaching in Austin and coaching volleyball and track. And then our youngest is 15. She's about to be a sophomore. They start school pretty soon here. She's just an amazing human being. She loves to serve and she loves children. She loves children so much that she says she wants to have eight to 12. She hasn't settled on a number yet. Wow, that's amazing. Oh my goodness. Wow. I mean, just hearing your story, Pam. I mean, you were the picture, right? Of everything against you. You were basically homeless. You were struggling with addiction. You had a four-year-old that, you know, you couldn't take care of. And I mean, you were this picture of, you know, what pro-choicers like to say. Like, look, like this mom cannot take care of this child. And you, you know, ultimately were faced with the decision in that life. And your story is so powerful because it's like, yes, I did have everything pinned up against me. But it could have been different. And so I'm just curious, what would you say to a mom? Like, if you could go back and talk to yourself, right? Like a mom who just found out she's pregnant. She's faced with a difficult decision. Like she's homeless. She doesn't have a job. She already has one kid and she doesn't know who the father is. And she's faced with this decision to, you know, choose life or to choose, you know, abortion. What would you say to that mom? You know, I would probably say, I don't have it all figured out. And I don't know everything about you. But what I do know is that you're not alone anymore. I'm standing in front of you. And whatever you need, we'll find it. And we can solve these reasons that are sending you into this abortion clinic today. We can find the money to pay your rent. We can find a way to make sure that you have everything that you need. I know so many people who would love to help you today. And I will walk with you for as long as you'll allow me to. And I believe that's the way that we do this, is one by one, each one reach one. But we have to commit. Absolutely. And I think that's another thing that I've heard a lot of people, you know, argue with me about is, well, what's out there for the mother when she chooses life? And so I guess that kind of brings us back to, you know, kind of why you and I met was I was interested in what Pro-Life Ministries was doing. And why don't we go ahead and jump into that and talk about, you know, how they support the mother and how they support other organizations that come alongside that mother? Because we need to be talking about organizations like you guys and others that are out there for a mother who's faced with this decision, right? And they feel like they

And getting the word out about these amazing organizations. So let's chat about, you know, what ProLove Ministries is doing and how you got involved with them. Well, I was already working for Abby Johnson with her organization, And Then There Were None, which helps abortion workers leave their jobs and find hope and healing in Christ. So I'd been serving and working with her already, but I really got my start in the pro-life movement on the sidewalk in front of the abortion facility through sidewalk advocacy. And I still had a heart for that. So even while I was working for her and then there were none, I would go on the sidewalk every single week, sometimes two times a week. And I live in Houston, which has the largest abortion facility in the country. And Abby even still was actively going to the sidewalk, especially during 40 Days for Life. And we're again, we're on the ground, first responders in front of the abortion facility encountering women who were just like us walking into an abortion clinic. And as we encountered these women, you know, we would take them to a pregnancy center. Again, there are over 2,500 pregnancy centers across this country and more popping up every single day now who are doing amazing work to assist women in crisis. They provide ultrasounds at no cost, pregnancy tests at no cost. They offer referrals to community organizations that can help ladies with, you know, all kinds of help. And they have baby boutiques that provide all sorts of clothing and car seats and those kinds of things. And all of that is so wonderful, right? And many of them are Christ-centered and they will preach the gospel to women and lead them to a relationship with Christ to walk with them through that, connect them to a church and all of that is amazing, right? But we would encounter women who were like me, complex situations, multiple complex needs, women with like major needs. And we would send them to a pregnancy center, but pregnancy centers really didn't know what to do or didn't have the resources in real time because they would have to send them back out into the community to get their needs met. And when you do that to a woman who's facing down the lane of an abortion decision, you put her back into the general population, so to speak, to vie for resources that other vulnerable populations are seeking to get. And she becomes the last woman on the totem pole. She's not gonna get there as quickly as they do because she's probably got a couple of kids with her. She's gonna be last in line. And so it dilutes her resources. So what we did is we started Loveline, which is a project of ProLove Ministries. And it really is the premier project of ProLove Ministries. So really anyone can go to our website and see all of our affiliates and projects. It's ProLoveMinistries.org. But I really wanna talk about Loveline, if that's okay. Yeah, absolutely. Loveline is a 24-hour day, seven-day-a-week crisis text line where women who are single and parenting children or pregnant and need help that they can't find anywhere else, can reach out to us through text message and be screened on the hotline for services. So we provide a comprehensive case management model of care. Everything we do is virtual unless the case manager is within a certain vicinity of a client and she can meet with her in person. But we provide financial assistance to pay bills. We provide therapy at no cost through telehealth. We provide financial coaching to lead a woman to a place of financial empowerment where she can sustain a life that can free her from government assistance. That's one of the biggest goals that we have. Every woman gets a case manager who kind of walks alongside her throughout the entire process. So up to date, we have served over 3,500 women and we've impacted over 6,700 children. And this year is probably, we're probably gonna serve that many women and children just in this year because it's picked up so much since Roe v. Wade was overturned. Yeah, yeah. Wow. So how could someone like me in Kansas, right? Like how could I help advance what you guys are doing? How could I get, how could someone, you know, in another state get involved with you guys? One of the greatest ways is to just share our phone number. Like if you ever come across on social media, you know, someone talking about the fact that they're pregnant, they don't know what to do or someone has a friend or you just want to share it. You wanna put it somewhere. Our number is 888-550-1588. And she just texts that number. Everything starts with a conversation. Loveline has its own website too. It's loveline.com. And when you go to Loveline, we have resources available that can be printed out. It's like a little drop card. It's like the size of a business card. And you can drop those anywhere. You can drop them at Walmart. You can drop them at, you know, the laundromat. That's a great place. A lot of single moms go to the laundromat, especially in apartments. You can even drop those anywhere in the grocery store where the cereal is, all kinds of places where the baby formula is, where the diapers are. We'll be right back after this. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free Retirement Defense Guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. Christians need to stop listening to the world and start listening to God so that thinking Christian becomes as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian Podcast. This is Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological conversations, Thinking Christian offers a mix of interviews and discussions that highlight the ways God is working in the lives of his people and question the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that keep the church from conforming more closely to the image of Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. And that way she knows, like she can reach out for help. Loveline doesn't just exist for pregnant women. Actually, it was more started for the single mom because there's a lot of help out there for women while they're pregnant. But once she has the baby and once, or if she has a couple of kids, her relationship crumbles, you know, because maybe he didn't even want her to have the baby. For whatever reason, the relationship crumbles because they decide not to get married. You know, they're trying to do this out of covenant. There's not a lot of help that's available to her, especially if she's trying to work, trying to get the kids to daycare, you know, trying to move forward or going to school. So we wanted to provide some help that she can't get anywhere else. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because it's, you know, it's her struggles don't end. They keep going and multiply. Even those of us who are married. I mean, it's hard. Absolutely. You know, I tell women all the time, parenting is hard. You know, being a mom is hard. Adoption is hard. Like when you're facing this pregnancy and you're facing this decision, whatever you choose is going to be hard, but that's just it. You get to choose your hard, right? You choose your hard. And then you decide, is this a decision that I can live with and be proud of? Absolutely. And that's how you know. Absolutely. Right. Well, I just went to the website and I downloaded the Loveline drop card and I absolutely love them. It shows for listeners, it shows a phone. It says you are not alone. We can help. My friends and I and our church, you know, we were like, okay, what? We need to be in the hands and feet of Jesus. And what can we do? And so I think this is a great way is to just print them off and leave them places. Like you said, at laundromats or where formula is just to remind mothers. And I know you touched on this earlier. You had postpartum depression and I did too, Tammy. It was absolutely awful. So the things that you're talking about, like the visions and the thoughts that were going through your head, that was, that was me too. And I think it's something that us moms need to talk about more often because it, it is more common than we realize. And so even moms that are, are dealing with, you know, those feelings, it's, it's amazing to know that they can reach out and get the help they need to too. So truly. Yeah. Therapy is one of the greatest services that we provide. And it's at no cost. Wow. You know, mental, mental health shouldn't be a privilege. It should be a right. Absolutely. And unfortunately in this country, mental health care is treated as though it's a privilege. Yep. We don't believe that that should be the case. We do provide therapy at no cost. And our therapist is EMDR trained with trauma therapy. Yeah.

What we find is the, just like me, the driving forces behind these decisions is trauma. Abortion is a trauma decision. Right. It is never the real, you know, no one goes to have an abortion because they want to kill their child. They want the pain to stop. They want the crisis to stop. They want all the things to just stop. Like, why does this keep happening? Well, it keeps happening because I'm telling you, 90% of the time it's trauma. All these women that we're serving, we're finding the trauma, you know, so far back. And so we believe in getting to the root. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that postpartum depression is very real for many women. Also, another thing that women go through during their pregnancy is hyperemesis gravidarum, also known as HG. Oh, yeah. One of my good friends was so sick. We have an affiliate at Pro-Life Ministries called Hugs Over Ginger, H-G Hugs Over Ginger, who is, she's like, do not offer me a ginger candy. That does not help with HG. No, it doesn't. And she provides support for women with HG. And so, you know, the affiliates at Pro-Life Ministries are unique organizations that are filling a gap in the pro-life movement. And that's one. Loveline fills a gap. And then there were none fills a gap. Abortion Survivors Network fills a gap, serving people that were previously unseen, unheard, and underserved. And so that's really our goal. And we want to create unity within the movement. And so one of the things that we have available right now, it's a brand new project that we are about to launch. It's called The Genesis Project. And we actually have software available for case management that will connect people. So that we can route needs through the network. If it doesn't get met locally, it'll get met within the state. If it doesn't get met within the state, it can get met nationally. That's amazing. That is amazing. Yeah, we're really excited about it. So if a mom, you know, is working with a caseworker, you know, they're struggling, you guys could really get connected with her and get her the resources that she needs for basically free, right? I mean, get her help. Yeah, nothing that we do costs her anything. Wow. Except time. Yeah. Wow, that's truly amazing. But it costs someone something. Yeah. Absolutely. It costs, we have donors who are just regular folks like you and me, Maggie, who donate to this organization. I mean, it's always amazing to me to see someone who gives a recurring donation of $5 a month, you know? What it can do. Yes, I always think of the widow's mite. And we do our best to be good stewards. We don't have a lot of overhead because we don't have a building. We only have five people on staff salary. We work with a lot of volunteers. So if anyone wants to get plugged in and help, you can go to Loveline.com and under resources, I think the tab is. I can't remember the name of the tab at the top, but you'll find our volunteer form. That's a great place too. Or if you want to stay local, go volunteer at your local pregnancy center. They always, always, always need help. Sometimes it's as simple as sorting donations or, you know, answering the phone or delivering something to a mom. You know, there's so many things that we can do. And when we come back, you'll find out more ways that you can help. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide. Or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. Christians need to stop listening to the world and start listening to God. So the thinking Christian becomes as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian Podcast. This is Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful, theological conversations, Thinking Christian offers a mix of interviews and discussions that highlight the ways God is working in the lives of his people and question the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that keep the church from conforming more closely to the image of Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. And then a great way for people to get involved is to pray intentionally every single day for those who are doing this work. Because the battle is real. I'm telling you, it's real. Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I know that I am going to fill out the volunteer form because I really want to get involved with you guys and just, you know, help from a local level. I think it's truly amazing that you are coming alongside the mother before, during, and after her pregnancy. And we need more rock stars like you guys. It's truly amazing. And thank you. I mean, really, thank you for what you're doing. And I know I've taken up a lot of your time, but I just want to ask you one more question. You know, when speaking out for life and the unborn, I often get a lot of times people coming back to me of saying, well, if the mother is forced to have this child, this child could end up being unwanted, unloved, and in the foster care system. And that always strikes me as so bizarre to me because it's like, so are we saying the alternative is death? That they deserve death because of that? And as someone who, you know, you grew up in the foster care system and unfortunately had a horrible experience, and I'm so sorry for that. How would you respond to that? You know, we have this desire within us as human beings to want to relieve suffering, right? Right. Or to keep people from suffering. And we think in some bizarre way that this is going to relieve suffering. But every abortion, it injures two people. It kills the baby and it injures the mom. And so we have to remember that we're dealing with human beings. No one, science, you cannot dispute that the unborn is a human being. Right. So we're talking about a human rights issue. And in no way would we ever advocate for the destruction of a human life. We don't advocate for euthanasia, right? Right. Like, you don't look at a two-year-old who might suffer. Look at someone who's got a two-year-old and they're in addiction and think, oh gosh, we need to get rid of that two-year-old so they don't suffer. No. You take the mom and get her the help that she needs and you put the child in a safe place. That's all we're trying to do. We can all admit that the foster care system needs an overhaul. Yeah. Right? So why don't good Christian people or even the pro-choice people who want to argue about this, why don't you sign up to foster children? And then we won't have this foster care problem with the terrible foster homes. So I would probably come back with that. Well, like, why don't you sign up to foster then? And then that's one more good home that we can put children in. Right. Absolutely. I know my husband and I are very passionate about that. We actually started the adoption process and got... Oh, glory. Yeah. We had gotten our home study done and we actually had a birth mother. She was due with a baby girl and she ended up changing her mind. That was extremely difficult. But I ended up finding out I was pregnant. Classic story, right? Yay! Yeah. And so we had our sweet Levi. He just turned three and then we didn't think we were going to be able to have another child, but God blessed us and we had, we have a nine-month-old, but my husband and I very much want to adopt or foster. So that is very much in our plans and on our heart. And so I think, you know, we need more good Christian families and good families in general to just step up to that calling to help these, you know, bless children to give them the love that they deserve. That's one step that we, you know, we can do better as a country and do. So, yeah. For sure. And one of our affiliates also is Abiding Love Adoptions. Uh-huh. And while I'm not necessarily an adoption advocate, meaning I'm not someone who speaks out about adoption per se, unless it's unethical, then I'll call it out. But everything I've learned about ethical adoptions and when I talk about adoption, I always talk about ethical adoption. Everything I've learned about ethical adoption, I learned from Abiding Love Adoptions. They're definitely a unique adoption agency that is set up. They represent the expected mom and they're the only agency.

I know of who does that. So much like the mother that you guys were in relationship with, who had made a plan, and then basically what happened is, you all probably loved her really well, or the agency loved her really well, and she felt empowered to parent the child. And while, yes, it is devastating, you can't help but be excited for her, right? Right. And that's what happens a lot with abiding love adoptions. They will, you know, a mom will make an adoption plan and the goal, of course, is to connect her with a family. They don't represent any hopeful adoptive families. There's a consultant who will find a family and connect the mom with her, but abiding love will walk her through that process. I've actually referred a mom to them one time, who's now a birth mother advocate. She placed her baby for adoption and now she advocates, yeah, to help other birth moms. So it's a unique model. They're on our website if anyone wants to look. They also started abiding love charities, which help mothers who place their children for adoption after placement. And they have a post-placement curriculum that pregnancy centers or churches, any other organizations can use to start a birth mother support group. There are likely more people than you know in your church who have placed children for adoption. And they don't speak out about it because there's a lot of shame and stigma that comes with that. And if you provide a safe space for them to meet and seek, then their healing will come as well. So you have to remember when a mom places her child for adoption, she leaves with an empty womb and empty arms and a big hole in her heart. And she doesn't get much care afterwards, you know. And so they're set up to provide that care for as long as you need it. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. We can't wait. A lot of unique things going on at Birth Love Ministries. Yeah, no kidding. I'm so glad that we connected because, yeah, it's amazing to showcase what you guys are doing. And we will absolutely link your website on our social media accounts and the link on our podcasts because I definitely think more people need to get involved. What you guys are doing is truly God's kingdom work. And I just can't thank you enough for sharing your story, right? Because I know that's hard and difficult what you walked and just being vulnerable and sharing your testimony. Thank you so much. I want to take just a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast. Christians need to stop listening to the world and start listening to God so the thinking Christian becomes as natural as breathing. Life Audio. Hey there, it's Nicole Yunus from the How to Study the Bible podcast. And I'd love to invite you to join us as we weekly discover a passage of God's word together from beginning to end, from principles to practicals. We are here to make sure that God's word is powerful and relevant to your life. If that sounds like something you're looking for, I would love to invite you to subscribe. You can go to lifeaudio.com and search How to Study the Bible and we'll see you there.