Does God Change? Can God Learn? A Theological Discussion

Christians need to stop listening to the world and start listening to God, so the thinking Christian becomes as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. This is Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful, theological conversations, Thinking Christian offers a mix of interviews and discussions that highlight the ways God is working in the lives of his people and question the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that keep the church from conforming more closely to the image of Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. Today, we're going to dive into the State of Theology report and look at one of the statements that many evangelical believers actually agreed with, and that is about how and whether God changes and adapts. And so the statement reads like this, God learns and adapts to different circumstances. And U.S. evangelicals were asked to either agree or disagree with that statement, and 48% of U.S. evangelicals agreed that God learns and adapts to different circumstances. And so this statement in the State of Theology report really was designed to get at whether or not people believe God can or can't change. And so in today's discussion, what I think we want to cover is, number one, is this statement reasonable? You know, to what extent is this statement maybe sort of giving people a little bit of heartburn in the first place? Maybe it's a little confusing. But then also to discuss a little bit about, does God actually change? And what do we mean when we say that God is unchangeable? So that's the ground we're going to cover today. It's an interesting subject to understand how the question was framed. I wonder if it was confused by a lot of people in more ways than one. Yeah, it's interesting because in the report, it shows two divisions. So it shows just general U.S. adult findings, and then it shows U.S. evangelical respondents. And so actually 51% of U.S. adults agreed versus 48 of U.S. evangelicals agreeing, which isn't that big of a difference. But then when you look at the sort of not sure category, 17% of U.S. adults weren't sure and 9% of evangelicals weren't sure. And so if I compare that to other questions on the report, it is a little higher than certain ones, but not, you know, so much higher that you'd think, wow, they were really confused by the question. Now, I will say I have a little trouble with this question, right? Because having written tests and things like that for higher education before, it's almost like when you're writing a true or false question, right, on a test or something like that. You want to try to make it as simple as possible. You don't want to leave room for answers. Let me ask you a serious question. 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And the way that they've written this statement, they've included two things. It's really two questions in one statement. Do you believe that God learns and do you believe that God adapts? Right. And so learning and adapting are two different things, really. Now, with learning, we can ask ourselves, you know, does God learn? And there are various passages that might suggest that. So one of my favorites, Genesis 22.12, you know, Abraham has been told to go and sacrifice Isaac. Isaac is the child of promise. He's already sent Ishmael away. He's looking for an heir. And so, you know, God is going to test Abraham and he tells him to go and sacrifice Isaac. And so Abraham dutifully goes and he's going to sacrifice his son. At the last minute, an angel comes down. The angel of the Lord comes down, actually, and says, Look, don't do this, Abraham. Now I know that you are one who fears God. Emphasis on the now, right? Now I know as if I didn't know before. And so some people suggest that's like anthropomorphic, right? Just the biblical writer applying something to God that would rightfully, more rightfully be applied to a human being. Others suggest that this is an instance where God is really testing Abraham. He's figuring out Abraham's sort of metal here and he's not sure how the test is going to go. Yeah. And I don't really buy that because, you know, why would God ask him to sacrifice his son? And I think it's more of a, hey, like a teacher does. Now you're getting it. Now you're getting it. I knew you would. I knew you were going to do this, but now I see that you're getting it. You're being obedient. You're understanding this, this whole concept. And you can trust God. And he actually did, Abraham, from what's not said, he did expect God to provide a lamb rather than his son for the sacrifice. Right. I mean, we see it in Hebrews 11, right, that Abraham, the way Hebrews interprets it is that Abraham thought that he would raise Isaac from the dead, if nothing else. You know, he knows that Isaac is the son of promise. He knows that this is going to be his heir. And so he's trusting in God's promises and acting despite what, you know, is apparent before him. And so Abraham does have this faith. Right. And with Abraham's record, he didn't have that. That was something he was really missing. That's right. A deficit in his life. But I think it's this passage is it does raise some questions and concerns just because from a Hebrew grammar perspective, now implies at present. Right. And it suggests that it wasn't before, but it is at this moment. And so it does lean into this idea that God learns. And this actually was a fairly large question with something called open theism. And I'll date myself a bit. I was in my Ph.D. program, my Ph.D. coursework somewhere around 2006 or seven when open theism became sort of a big issue within the Evangelical Theological Society. And the question was, can open theists continue to be a part of ETS, as it's called? But open theism was essentially kind of an innovation, we'll call it. I'll hesitate to call it a heresy, although I think many people would. But it was a way of understanding the various attributes of God and sort of rearranging some of what we see in texts like Genesis 22, 12, like what we see when God repents or regrets certain things in Scripture. You know, we've covered Genesis six, for instance, on useful to God on the radio program. And so God regrets making humankind. And some people have seen these different changes and twists that God takes as evidence that he actually does change his mind, that he does adapt to these circumstances. Now, the way open theism formulates that and tries to make sense of these different biblical texts is they say, well, it really is about how God relates to time. And so we are, we don't immediately go to time when we think of God's knowledge, but it's actually quite important. So if we think about it, most traditional theists, myself included, would say, you know, God is outside of time. Right. So he sits outside of time, not within time. He is not subject to time. And so the way I usually picture this for students is I say, if you, if you think about the Macy's Day Parade that's on in on Thanksgiving and my wife makes me watch every year. We watch one act and then we watch another act and then we watch another act. And that's like being in time. So we're seeing parts of the parade go by and we're seeing new acts come through and we're not sure what's coming next. We have to be told. In other words, there's a deficit on our knowledge about what is going to happen next in the parade. And, you know, for me.

That deficit of knowledge just hopes that this is the last act in the parade at some point. But, you know, then there's another way to think about it. If you were up in a blimp and you're seeing the whole parade at once, and you're seeing the whole thing unfolding, just as, you know, not one particular act, but all the acts all together, that would be analogous to, and the analogy falls apart, you know, like all analogies do, but that would be analogous to being outside of time. Right. And this is the perspective that God generally, I would say, occupies. Open theists suggest that God actually sits in time. So he's watching the parade just like we are. And so what that does is it changes God's knowledge because God knows all things that can be known, but because the future has not yet happened, he cannot know the future. Right. And so what God turns into is a really good guesser. And so this moment, like we see in Genesis 22, becomes something that God doesn't really know what Abraham's going to do. He's testing him. He knows he can turn it if he needs to, right? Like if Abraham ends up killing Isaac or if Abraham doesn't, you know, doesn't take him to sacrifice, God knows he's got maybe more work to do with Abraham. And he can circle back similar to what he's done, you know, Abraham takes his wife down to Egypt and lies about her, you know, says she's his sister and God intervenes. And so these tests now are really and truly tests both for Abraham and for God in the mind of open theists. And it's because God's knowledge is now constrained because he can't know the future because there is no future yet. And that's pretty problematic when you think about it, if you know God, if you understand that God knows us and he knows what we're going to do, not like Santa Claus, you know, he's you better watch out. Right, he's making a list. That's right. Yeah, it changes a lot of different things. And so what I would say is that as we look at these passages, like in Genesis 22, 12, what I think is happening is God is seeing from his a-temporal view, right? The reason that, you know, if you think about it like this, the reason that God predicts, can predict the future is that he's already seen the future happen. We see it as future. In other words, from our perspective, it hasn't happened yet. So we don't know exactly what's going to happen. God doesn't see it like that. God already seen the end. Right. Right. And so everything that is going to happen, he's already, he already knows. But as he drops down into this moment in time, this is the moment he sees it. Right. Right. And so it's, he's there in the present with Abraham. And he's saying, now I know, right? At this moment in your time, I know. Right. Right. But he's always known. Right. And so I, I see it as one of those interesting paradoxes with God. But what that traditional view does is it disallows God learning, right? God doesn't learn new things. God knows all things. Right. Versus the open theist view, which requires God to learn new things. Because as, you know, the next progression of the future happens, God is learning all of that new information. How does that work with the obvious free choice that we have? Yeah. It gets, it gets deeper, right? It does. And the real question is, you know, sometimes people view that as a conundrum. I personally never have. As I study it, you know, knowing something is going to happen doesn't mean that we are being controlled so that it does happen. Again, if we take the view that God is outside of time and has seen everything that happens, it doesn't mean that he's controlling everything that happens. It just means that he knows. And so that next choice that we're going to make, those, the three choices we don't even know we're going to make yet and we're going to make in the future, those aren't happening with God at, as an in-time sort of choice. Right. Right. He's already seen what we're going to do. And so it's not as if knowing it changes the fact that we have free choice to do it. It reminds me of, as you've explained the, you know, looking, it reminds me of the song, God is watching us, God is watching us, you know, and from a distance. And I always go, I don't think so. I think there's a, there's a way in which that makes sense. There's this distance that he does have to us in the sense that he is just, he knows so much differently than we do. And we see that reiterated through scripture often. But I think that's why it's important for us to distinguish that God actually doesn't learn. Because what most people think, like when we think about learning and adaptation, if we take these two words that are in this statement, learning and adaptation aren't negatives for us. They're normally pretty positive, right? If I, if I wanted to compliment somebody and I say, wow, you're, you really, you learn from your mistakes. You're, you're a great learner. You adapt well to different situations. Those are all generally positive things, right? We don't, you know, oh, you're an adapter. That's horrible. We don't view it like that. Right, right. But the reality is that learning implies a deficiency. Yeah. How that works also with what God allows after, you know, he, because he knows how humans are. You know, he, he says at times that we're evil because of our evil dispositions or whatever. Those are the, I allow this because you are, whether that's war or whether that's divorce, all of those things that, I mean, there's always something, there's a caveat in those, uh, in those things. Always. And I, I think the important part to understand about this, um, when we think about God and change, which again, this statement is really getting at, um, what we're really trying to think about is God and consistency, I think. I think it's easier to think about it in that way. Let's put it that way. And so if we look at ancient near Eastern, um, gods, um, which were false gods, right? They weren't actually there, right? Um, you're creating an idol with your own hands and then you're praying to that idol, right? Um, it'd be like me drawing a picture and then, you know, praying to that picture. Well, the picture isn't really anything, right? Um, I turn it into something when I worship it, it becomes a false idol, but it, it can't do anything. It's, it's deaf. It's blind. It, you know, it has no power. Um, and so when the ancient near Easterners would go to their gods and pray for things like rain or for their crops to come up, or for, um, you know, relief from, uh, their enemies surrounding them. Sometimes from their perspective, the gods would answer. Yes. Right. And they'd, they'd answer in the positive and all of a sudden they'd, they'd win their battle or the crops would come up or there'd be rain. But then there'd be other times that they'd go to their gods and they'd do the exact same thing and no rain would come, no crops would come up and they'd be defeated in war. And so what we call that in, in sort of theological terms is capriciousness of the gods. In other words, these ancient near Easterners are going to gods that they don't really fully understand that haven't communicated what they want or how they want it. They haven't conveyed any sort of wisdom to the ancient near Eastern world. And so you're guessing what the God wants all the time. You're always trying to appease the God, bribe the God, get the God to do something for you, sort of pull the God into your life to ensure that they are giving you what you need on a day-to-day basis. God, on the other hand, is not like that. The God of Israel gives these guidelines. He gives wisdom to Israel and he is consistent in the way that he relates to humankind. And so what we find is that God does not change in that respect. God is always consistent in his character, in the way that he interacts with humanity. He's never going to at one moment say, hey, don't muzzle an ox while you're treading grain. All right, one of my favorite Old Testament laws, right? Hey, don't muzzle that ox while you're treading grain. And then the next moment come back and punish you for not muzzling your ox while it's treading grain. It just won't work. Like he doesn't do that. And so he is consistent. And so a lot of times what we're seeing in instances like divorce, let's say, right, where he allows divorce, it's a consistency of his character to love his people. Right. And so he is making a provision based on what he needs to do for his people. He's not compromising on his what we might call values. Right. Right. But what he is doing is he's making sure that the people have, because they're sinful, that this aspect.

of their life has guidelines around it that would allow for everyone in society to be sufficiently cared for, and that relates to his sufficiency of character. It's not necessarily what he wants, but on the road to redemption, right, before the new heavens and the new earth is created and done, these provisional things have to be in place. And so we actually see something very similar with the law. The whole law is viewed as a tutor or as someone who would care for a young child, raise them, educate them, protect them, guide them. That was the law to ancient Israel. But once Christ comes and we have the Holy Spirit, that function of the law, and it's not the whole law, it's not like we throw the whole law out, but that function of the law ceases to exist. In other words, as people come to maturity, they no longer need these things anymore. And so the point is, there's a consistency with God, and that consistency is really important because as we see some of these other instances where it appears that God may be changing his mind, I don't actually think they're changes in mind. They are him consistently acting based on the situation and the reaction of humankind. So the repentance of the Ninevites in Jonah, for instance, God is not changing. He's told them that there is a wrath coming. And yet, when these people repent, it's very consistent with God's character to relent and to step back and to say, you've changed your ways, and so now I won't destroy you. And so these are conditional actions that God is sort of mediating between different nations and different people. And we have to leave room for some of that conditionality. There are other instances where we might say they are unconditional. And so one of my favorites here is, you know, when Jeroboam, God speaks to Jeroboam in the book of Kings, and he's going to give him 10 of the kingdoms of Israel, but he's going to preserve one for Judah because he's made a promise to David and that promise is not going to be given away. And so there's an instance of an unconditional promise that is going to be preserved no matter what. And so you have both these instances in the Old Testament and really into the New Testament, but you know, Old Testament is kind of my specialty. And so we have these in the Old Testament where God is consistent. He doesn't change in that respect. He always interacts in the same way with humanity. There isn't a severe compromise of sorts or we don't have to guess who God is or what he's going to do. We understand what he's going to do to a certain extent. Now, we may miss some of the picture, but that doesn't imply an inconsistency in God. I saw a story about gods, little g, little g gods. It was a news program and the commentator was interviewing some of these people who had… It was a story about smuggling and these statues who were gods, little gods. And they were coming out of Cambodia at a temple, a big, big temple in Cambodia. And all of these, there was an art smuggler and art dealer. And so he had sold all of these, had smugglers in Cambodia who took these statues and sold them to the Met. He sold them to a couple of really very, very rich people. And so they were found. But what they would do is that they would cut the concrete at the feet. So you have all these artifacts that are without feet. And this person's home. But what fascinated me, and this may speak a little bit to our survey, was that the commentator, he was asking some of the people who were missing these and they were the authorities in Cambodia. And he said, so now that you have them back, what do you think? And he said, well, and it was a man and a woman. And they said, well, you could tell that they're feeling happy. And you could tell that they are very honored that we went and we got these back. So he says, so there, you know that they're feeling this. You know that they that they have a relationship with you, like God. And he didn't ask it sarcastically or anything, or he was doing it like it was a fact. And I, you know, being a journalist, I was kind of where's the objectivity in this? But it speaks a little bit to the way we've kind of because of pressures and because of other things that, and, you know, we talked about this in worship when we talked about worship, that we have all these all knowing statues who would been, you know, you know, they're like ransom, you know, what are they feeling, you know? So I think the interesting part about it is, you know, when we think about this whole issue of God and change, those gods will change. And they will change and they have to change. They have to learn. They have to adapt because we learn and adapt. And so, you know, to say that God learns and adapts is to apply human characteristics to God, not in a way that is explanatory, but in a way that distorts God. Right. Idols take on our characteristics. Right. They're blind when we're blind. They're deaf when we're deaf. Right. They're happy when we're happy, but their limitations are truly our limitations. There's a reason that in, you know, the ancient Near East or these Cambodian gods or what have you, that they can be stolen, that they can be taken away, that they can be impotent to bring rain or make crops come up. And the reason is that we're impotent to do that. Right. And so when we're asking a question like this in the State of Theology survey, I think one of the big issues of having 48% of evangelicals agree with this statement is that we're starting to lower our understanding of God. Now, if people are confused by that, you know, maybe that's too harsh a statement, but either way, I would say if we truly believe that God learns and adapts to different circumstances, we are absolutely diminishing God. Right. We're absolutely diminishing him. And it's because, just like you're saying, we can claim that, you know, X, Y, or Z gods are living gods. We can claim that these gods are happy. We can claim that these gods feel honored. We can claim whatever. Right. But those gods are ultimately going to be fairly capricious. They're going to change their minds about different things. They're going to, they are going to learn and adapt to different circumstances because largely those gods are us. Right. They are reflections of who we are and what we think and how we act. For us as evangelicals, God is different than we are. He is other than us. And in this sense, he is definitely other to, like I said earlier, you know, suggesting that God learns suggests a deficiency in knowledge. That's what learning is. Right. It's not a bad thing. Learning is not a bad thing for us, but it does apply, imply a deficiency of knowledge. There's something that I don't know that I need to know, and thus I have to learn it. It's a deficiency that I'm overcoming through learning. Adaptation, somewhat similar, although I think I'm a little more inclined to say that God does adapt or respond at least to certain situations. And that doesn't imply change. It implies that consistency that I talked about earlier and that in his consistency, he is going to respond differently within a given situation. And so if that's what we mean by adapt, that makes sense. If what we mean by adapt is we say, you know, in our cultural context, you know, certain things are appropriate or are deemed appropriate. And so God just relaxes his moral standards and decides, yeah, yeah, maybe now that's okay. That's not what God does, right? God is consistent. He is the moral standard. When we say in 1 John, God is love, right? That means something. It means that he is the definition of love, right? That he defines what love is. And so that's not going to change. A lot of those things are just sort of consistency with God. But he does react, I think, differently to us as we respond differently to him. And so either way, what we have is we have what I would say is a trustworthy God, a God who is a solid foundation. He is not the shifting sands. And he is foundational for us and a solid.

foundation because he's real, and he is what he is, and we didn't create him. And so he doesn't have any of our limitations. He's above all those limitations. And so I think you're right, as we talk about some of these other things and we see different small g gods sort of put forth as if they are real or truly different from humanity. That becomes problematic, and we start to wonder whether or not those gods are similar to our God. And I would just say there may be some commonalities at some point, but it's certainly not in the sense of these gods are real and so is our God. Well, it's like Paul telling the Greeks who had the statue to the unknown God. He says, let me tell you about the God. I know that unknown God. And you know, the thing is that we have a known God. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up, and many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. That's right. In terms of the surveys, there's a correlation and there's a thread through almost all of these responses, it seems like. And is there an erosion of our knowledge of who God is? I tend to think that there, I don't know that I'd call it an erosion, and I haven't looked a lot at the biblical literacy stats and those kind of things. And honestly, I don't put a ton of stock in biblical literacy stats. But what I would say is this. The way I see this happening is we tend to adopt what Charles Taylor, who's a Canadian philosopher, calls social imaginaries. And social imaginaries, I think, are just a fancy way of saying we adopt underlying stories and assumptions that allow us to make sense of the world. And so what I see happening is we are adopting social imaginaries that deny or distort God. Usually, I state it in terms of story and just say the world tells stories that the world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny and distort God. And to the extent that we adopt those stories or seek to merge those stories with the Christian account, we are going to get a deformed theology. In other words, we're not going to understand really who God is because we're trying to add to, merge him with, a lot of ideas that he won't merge with. And so I think that's probably more what we're seeing here is the difficulty, not necessarily of just strictly knowing what the Bible teaches. That could be part of the problem. But I think the other side of the problem is not sitting underneath the Bible's authority. And so what we do is we say, yes, I know the Bible teaches this, but really, what if God were, what if this is correct about? And we start to try to compile these things together and all of a sudden the Bible becomes an authority as opposed to the authority. Right. And so, you know, that can take a number of different angles and and it happens in a number of different fields. I also think that some people tend to overstate this, right, in certain areas. But the key point is just this. God is who God is. He has disclosed himself to us in his word. And when we don't allow that word to be the authoritative account of who God is, we are making an absolute mistake. So that's what I see going on here. It's it to me, it's a mix maybe of knowledge, but certainly an authority question. Well, and I know I've I've read things from people who claim to be Christian. And, you know, I really hope that that's but they they say that's the mythology they choose to believe. Yeah. And that's that's problematic to me is that if we if we think that God is a myth or God is and that's what we're saying, really, that religion is a myth. And I think there's a big trend in the culture to try to frame it that way, frame it as a good story and that we follow. But that doesn't that doesn't merge with science or it doesn't merge with anything that we and that's that's problematic in this in this world that we're. But it's it's also, you know, God's not surprised by that, is he? No, but I do think you raise a good point. And I think that, you know, as we look at God and change, you know, part of what we're. Part of what we're always in danger of doing. Is pushing God out of our lives and deciding that we have a sufficient understanding of who God is, that we no longer need him to participate in what it is that we're doing. Great. And so I think the let's say the the tradition of Christian moral teaching, let's take the moral truths from the Bible and try to apply them in the, you know, for lack of a better term, secular realm. There's something about that that resonates, it seems right, seems good. But if we begin to mistake the idea that only the Christian moral principles matter, that's where I think we get into trouble. And so if God doesn't change, what God wants is not more moral people. What God wants is more people who love him with all their heart, soul, might and strength and love their neighbors as their self. And there's only one way to enter that, and that is through a relationship with Jesus Christ and faith. Morality. Absolutely. Do we want a more just society? That's what the state is for. That's what governing bodies are for. God has appointed them to do just that. And so Christians need to remember that just because there's an overlap. I mean, I'd love to have, you know, justice and peace in the world just as much as anybody else would. Right. But that overlap between between Christians and non-Christians of desiring a just and peace state doesn't change the fact that what God truly wants is to redeem and restore the world through a son, Jesus Christ. And so as we as we think about this issue of God and change, those are some of the implications. I actually think a lot of that has to do with this idea of God's malleability. If God adapts to what we think is right in the given moment. Right. He becomes like silly putty. He can take on whatever shape we need him to. Right. And that just isn't who God is. And so if we let God be unchangeable, if we let him be who he is and we view him like that and we understand him like that and we make sense of our world with him as our stable moment. Right. He is the stable figure. Then we have a better idea of how we are supposed to respond to him as opposed to responding to the situations that we happen to be in. Right. Final thoughts on on this subject. I think just kind of this state of theology reports. And if you if you take them and you look at this as an opportunity, this is where we've got this is what we've got to work on. It's almost like an assessment of what the culture may not be hungry for, but it may be what they really need. You know, that's you know, we we hear that that term we can't be everything to all all things to all people, but we can be the one thing that all people need. And I think that's a that's a good, good way of looking at it. And when you look at.

survey like this and you say, wow, this is actually the evangelicals. This is the church. And we've got to do a better job in really education and relationship in that way. Is that how is that why we do the State of Theology reports? Is that? I would assume I would really assume that's why Ligonier commissions it and why they look at it. They're trying to get a bead on, you know, what is the church thinking? How does the church understand itself in relation to God, society, others? You know, how do we understand people and what what it means to be a human being? All those different things that are really related to a theological viewpoint. So I do think that's part of why they're doing it. And I think that the real value in the report is not to say, well, every church has 48 percent of people who would agree with this statement or that statement. That's not the point. But the point is to look at a sampling of U.S. evangelicals and understand where some of the. Where some of the flaws in their thinking may be, you know, and that is an important aspect of recognizing that we still have some work to do, that the work of discipleship is not yet done and that we need to help people have a better understanding of who God is and who we are in relation to him and then allow that relationship then to drive our behavior and our practice. And so, yeah, that's the real value of the report. And, you know, I don't know that I would identify, you know, you know, believing that God learns and adapts to different circumstances. I don't know that I would ordinarily identify that just as I'm looking out at the church as a real problem. Right. But with 48 percent of evangelicals agreeing with it, it sure seems like it could be a bigger problem than maybe I'm giving it credit for. And so I'm glad we got to talk about it today on the podcast. I'm glad we got to work through some things and hopefully give people some food for thought on this and some some good guidance and wisdom. My encouragement to folks would be to go out on Google and just Google. There's a great article actually on from Dallas Theological Seminary and they're the voice. I believe it's called They just put in God and change DTS. They should find it on Google if they wanted to read a little bit more. But there's excellent resources out there that will help people clarify what this is and how it should work. And I just encourage them if they're interested in this topic to go out and find some additional resources to really look into it. Very good. All right, James, we'll move on to the next show. Yep. We'll see you all next time on Thinking Christian. Thanks. I want to take just a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast. Christians need to stop listening to the world and start listening to God. So the thinking Christian becomes as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. This is Dr. James Spencer through calm, thoughtful theological conversations. Thinking Christian offers a mix of interviews and discussions that highlight the ways God is working in the lives of his people and question the underlying social, cultural and political assumptions that keep the church from conforming more closely to the image of Christ. Now on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Rejoice always. Pray without ceasing. Give thanks in all circumstances. God invites us to cultivate thankful hearts by turning our eyes toward him in good times and bad. To listen to more Abide Christian Meditations, just go to lifeaudio.com or search your favorite podcast app for Abide Christian Meditation. You can also download the Abide app for more biblical meditations at abide.com.