An Interview with Brant Hansen- How Should Christians Think about Health, Healing, and the Proclamation of the Gospel

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I'm here with my co-host, Nate Yarantano, and our special guest, Brant Hansen. And Brant is a nationally syndicated radio host. He's also on a podcast called the Brant and Sherry Oddcast. He's got a new book out called Life is Hard, God is Good, Let's Dance. And he does some other mission work that we're gonna dig into as part of the program here. So, Nate, welcome back. And Brant, welcome for the first time. It's great to see you. Thank you. Nice to see Nate again. And nice to meet you. Yeah, before we started recording, we found out we have some shared origins here in Central Illinois. So... Yeah. The same glamorous background that people can be excited about. That's right. That's right. The glamorous world of Midwest living in Central Illinois. So, fantastic. Cardinals fan as well, so that's pretty cool. And I was just down at Ballpark Village. I don't know if you've been since they revamped that, but it's pretty slick. I have. I've heard good things. I would like them to take some of the income from that and put it towards the players. That's just my thing. But this is just not the place for that. We can do an opinion piece some other time. We'll figure the Cardinals out later. Yeah. Well, Brant, tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, talk about sort of maybe your history and how you got involved in radio in the first place. Well, so, actually, it really has to do with the Cardinals. I wanted to be a play-by-play guy. I listened to KMOX growing up. Yeah. I wanted to do that. The irony of it is, even as a kid, I couldn't see the ball when I was playing. Like, I had horrible vision. Horrible. And I kept, I played for eight years. I was literally, I'm not making this up, I was 0 for eight years. I never got a hit. I can't see the ball. And it didn't dawn on me until college that if I can't see the ball when I'm on the field, how am I going to do play-by-play from up in the booth? Like, I can't see the ball. I was just going to, like, describe colors and blurry shapes and stuff. So I became a youth pastor for a while. I got my degree in journalism, but I did that for a while. Then I started helping out on a radio station in Champaign, Illinois, as a part-time newsman. So I did news for a while. And then people would leave me on longer and longer on the air, like, for whatever reason, because they thought I was amusing or, like, odd. And I didn't set out to do this like this, but I wound up being left on the air by myself and then ultimately, like, syndicated, and the ratings were good and stuff. So I didn't, totally did not expect that to happen. It wasn't the plan. That's pretty funny. And when did you meet up with Sherry? I know she's kind of been a fairly longtime partner, right? Yeah, it's been 11 years now. So, yeah, she's a fantastic producer and co-host and partner in this. Yeah, so, and she's great, too, because she comes from Pittsburgh. She comes from, like, an urban background, like, black gospel background. And her insight into things and mine overlap a lot, but from two completely different backgrounds. And so that's been wonderful. And she has this amazing sense of humor. So it's a nice interplay between her and me. I'm, like, dry and kind of nerdy and all that. And she's got this big laugh and she's brilliant. So the other thing about me, just to say, I'm also on the spectrum. I was diagnosed years ago with autism spectrum disorder. And it's the high-functioning kind. My son as well. But I think that goes into the mix, too. I've got two grown-up kids. I've been married for 30, coming up on 30 before years. So, yeah. So that's about me. That's awesome. So your kids are 34 or you've been married for 34 years? Been married 34 years. The kids are grown up. In fact, I'm a granddad now. I got a grandchild who's coming over here in a little bit. They live here in town with my daughter and her husband. And, yeah, my son's in med school. He's planning to work for Cure. So, yeah, I'm proud of both the kids. Well, that's cool. Let's transition. Let's talk a little bit about Cure. Because I took a look at the website. It looks like an amazing organization. My wife is actually in the healthcare industry. And so we're pretty deeply, I'm pretty aware, just adjacent. I'm healthcare adjacent. Yeah, so I think as Christians, if you're like a Jesus follower, you should be healthcare adjacent. I just made that up. But I think it's true because three-quarters of his miracles are healing. And it didn't really dawn on me why. I was just, I was emceeing a concert, and they asked me to say something about Cure. And I was like, what's Cure? Because I want to know what I'm talking about when I'm on stage. Like, what are you talking about? And they said, oh, well, there's millions of kids around the world who are born with disabilities that we could fix. But they don't get fixed because they don't live in America or in the modern West. Like, and we do it in the name of Jesus. I thought, that's really interesting. These are permanent hospitals. They're not training hospitals. It's not Doctors Without Borders. It's not that. These are permanent hospitals. The surgeons live there. The doctors live there. The nurses, like, and it's all done in the name of Jesus where the kingdom of God is shared with everyone who comes through the doors. And it's eight full-time permanent hospitals, fully staffed, surgical. It's orthopedic and neurosurgery. The surgeons pray over the kids. Their families are loved. The moms are discipled if they want that. They're told the gospel. These are people that are told they're cursed because they have some kind of disability. The moms are told they're cursed because they have a kid with a disability. They're blamed, like, morally held responsible because they have a kid with a disability. Well, they come in contact with this hospital, and they're loved. They're told they're not cursed. God actually loves them, loves their child. Their child's beautiful. It's the first time they've ever heard that. And in the last year, I think Cure did 21,000. I should know. 21,000 surgeries. Wow. It's unbelievable. It is. But the wild thing was I went to the hospital in Afghanistan when I first went to visit, and I kept going back. Just Christian hospital there. Like, all about healing women and children. And I was so taken with it. I was like, how come I haven't heard of you guys? And they literally said, well, we're, like, busy. We're doctors. We're doing stuff. Like, oh. Yeah. So it's not a big PR thing. They actually do the work. And I was like, I would like to be involved with this. So I use my entire platform for that. And I've learned a lot about healing, and I've seen a lot. And that's why I say we should all be adjacent to it because healing is not a random thing. It's not an additional thing. It's like it's an advanced trailer of heaven. It's the kingdom is breaking through. It's visible, and you can see it. And I think we had about 20,000 people become Christians at the hospitals last year. I'm not exaggerating. Yeah. But when you see what's going on, you're like, yeah, of course, right? I mean, it's a miracle. Well, and that's 21,000 kids that wouldn't have maybe had that surgery otherwise. So that's absolutely amazing. Right. So, to me, this is the most Jesus-shaped thing I've ever seen in my life. Like, this makes sense to me. And there's a lot of stuff. I don't know. I imagine for you guys, too, but there's a lot of stuff in Christianity or in our subculture that just doesn't even, I don't even know what the connection is to Jesus, but this is so obviously Jesus-shaped, what he told us to do, that it's pure joy. It's unbelievably awesome. And most of the hospitals, I mean, these, they are permanent hospitals, like you said, but mostly in, from what I could tell, Afghanistan, Philippines, Africa. Am I missing? We had to spin the Afghanistan one off. I actually, the guy I actually stayed with, the pediatrician, was killed at the hospital. This was several years ago. Dude from a suburban Chicago. It was hilarious. Great guy. But it just isn't the right, we can't do it right now. Yeah. But so seven of the hospitals are in Africa. We have programs in places like Vietnam, like neuroprograms, but also we have a hospital in the Philippines. It's the Tebow Cure Hospital because Tim Tebow's Foundation is involved with it. Okay. But, yeah, we train the nationals, too. So like in Uganda, all the neurosurgeons are

So, yeah, it's pretty amazing. It's sort of crazy to think, I mean, I know, you know, there are certain disabilities, even in America where we might look down on folks and those kind of things. But, you know, when I think back in the gospels of Jesus healing the man born blind. Yeah. You know, he's just got the, you know, the perception is it's either this guy that sinned or his parents that sinned that the cow was born blind. And you watch Jesus dispel that understanding. And then sort of at the end, the Pharisees are bringing it back. But the healing of that man is transformative to his life beyond just physical sight. He now has this encounter with Jesus and becomes an oddly loyal follower within that narrative. Like, they're trying to get him to like deny Jesus and say this guy is, you know, kind of a schmuck or whatever. And he's going, no, I, I don't know how I would do that. He gave me my sight back. This is the guy. Let me ask you a serious question. 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So you're so I'm glad you brought that up because like that never made that much sense to me when he said, because they're like, who, well, you know, why did this happen? Like, so that God could be glorified. Yeah, I never quite got that, but now I see God glorified the left and right at these hospitals. And it's like, every traditional culture is like that. They've got to blame somebody. And so can you imagine how moms stress over guilt anyway in our culture, right? Like, you're, you're the reason, and they're usually abandoned. I mean, usually abandoned by the husbands. They're left, and sometimes the community is very often kick them out of the community because they don't want the curse getting on their kids. So you did it. It's your fault. That's why you've got this monster, this little freak show. And we want you out of here. So for Christians, people of Jesus to create a place where they can go and then be healed and be told you're not cursed. God's been storing your tears in a bottle. Like he draws close to the brokenhearted mind. It's, it is, and it costs nothing because there's believers here and around the world that are going, this makes sense to me. I can fund this. It's about a thousand dollars for surgery, which with your wife in the health industry, anybody's in the industry knows that's to get you a baby aspirin. That's affordable. Yeah. That's real affordable. Yeah. Things would jump up when my kids were born. Exactly. So being able to pay for that myself, like being able to pay for surgeries, being able to be involved with this, like, uh, that's just the, that's, that's a not even a, that's a no brainer. I mean, this to me is just. Yeah. So how do you see, like, do you know, maybe you don't see it, but do you know how people sort of reenter their communities? So they get cured, right? They have these surgeries and now they're, you know, they're healthy. Yeah. Does the community accept them back or do they continue to carry that stigma? Like, does the community perception change? That's a great question. Like I've seen weird situations, like with one bull boy, I went back to his house after he was healed and his family, I can't remember. They basically called him a word for cripple. This was in Zambia, I think. And after he was healed. They still called him crippled just because they were so used to him being the worst of the family. And I got to pray and they accept because I'm an American, you know, they're like, Oh yeah, sure. Whatever you say is true. And I got to pray about how this, how awesome this kid is. And like, but in front of them, because I wanted to hear that. But most of the time what happens very familiar. They come back into the community and the people are like, wait. We told you, we thought you were cursed. Our, our, our, uh, faith healers couldn't do anything about it. Our natural, whatever you call it, witch doctors, basically. Yeah. Everything and it didn't work. Who did this? So this isn't normal, but it's happened on multiple occasions where the entire community becomes believers. Like we've had mass baptisms as a result. And we've had disenfranchised witch doctors, like. Because people don't believe in them anymore. And instead they believe in this Jesus. So we, we also train pastors at these hospitals and we, we help them with the theology of disability so that when people are reintegrated into churches or they become believers, they get integrated into churches. The churches know the truth about disability as well, instead of like synchronizing it with some folk beliefs about disability, you know? So it's remarkable. It freaks people out. It freaks them out. Like a 15 year old girl comes walking back into the village, all tall and proud. And they were like, What? It's unbelievable. So it's not just this child getting healed and having their life completely transformed. It's then transforming whole villages and communities. Yes. Yes. And it just underscores the message that the cure is really good about, like theologically, I think. Like there's a lot of thought. I know what it is. There's a lot of thought about the kingdom and how it's portrayed to the kids and to the parents, to the moms, to like how it's done. And then we're in a context like in Niger. It's 98% Muslim. I mean, everybody come in the door is Muslim. Families are Muslim. And we're able to talk about Jesus there because we're healing their kids. There's something about healing. That's not, it's not just another thing. You know, again, I tell people it's an advanced trailer of heaven. I mean, it's like Jesus is like the kingdom is breaking through. I'll show you how it's broken. This is what the kingdom of God is. Is there not, and I don't, I really don't know this. I'm kind of ignorant of Islam. I haven't really studied it as much. Is there not a, you know, an impetus toward this sort of healing and social transformation? You know, I mean, in the gospels, we see this all over the place that Jesus is concerned that the temporal things that he is concerned about are not pushed aside to focus on the spiritual, right? Like the spiritual now drives us back into the temporal world. And we, we dive into pain and suffering because that's just part of the message. That's part of the gospel. That's part of who we are. You know, these predominantly Islamic nations, they seem as though they may not have that same sort of dynamic that Christians do. Is that, do you know about that? Do you have any insight into that? I would, well, I'm not going to, I'm not going to speak as an expert, but I would say that what I have encountered is very different. A lot of, and this, this happens even in Christian, some Christian countries that say in this hemisphere, in the Western hemisphere here, but there's this syncretizing of folk stuff within a Christian context that we might have with some bizarre stuff. But that's very heavy in the Islamic nations where I've visited and been very, the, the you've done something to get a curse. There's a lot of curse talk. Interesting. Yeah. And so there's a lot of, you deserved it going on. There's a lot of judgmentalism towards women. Uh, so a lot of times these guys can leave scot-free because they're like, well, you're cursed. Ergo I'm out of here. That's not for my family. You did something. You deserve this. You might've cheated on me while you were pregnant or something because I don't, I'm not gonna have anything to do with this child. That's very common where we are. So I, I, I would say the way you put it is, is accurate. It's different. Very different. Well, I think it's a. I was just gonna say, I can't help but think that's very similar to some of the animals in the animal kingdom. Like if something's wrong with one of the babies, like the mother will disown them. But usually you don't hear that, especially here in the States. Like usually there's that unconditional love, especially from a mom. And if you're a dad, be like that. That's kind of shocking. I mean, I know it's out there, but it's just not the normal. It's really awful. You guys like, uh, I don't, I'll tell you. I think it's more than, I'll just, I'll give you one example just to get, because I can tell you a billion stories. I've met enough kids. Like there's one kid named John that was in the hospital in Zambia. My daughter met him when she was there, but seven years old,

Disability, that again is fixable, right? Right. It's nothing he did. He can't help it. That's so terrible. It's amazing, but we can fix it. So his legs are straight now, which is pretty awesome. Like, he's able to go to school and that kind of stuff. Another example is this girl I talk about by the name of Abigail. She's in Kenya. They weren't married, actually, but the dude left when she gave birth to his son or his daughter, Abigail. They named Abigail after his mom, as that's kind of traditional. But when they saw that she had clubfoot, again, with a clubfoot, fixed in the U.S. like that, he abandoned her. Even Abigail, the namesake, grandma, abandoned her. It's just this woman and this baby. Well, she comes to cure. We talk to her about Jesus. We heal her baby, talk about the mom. So she's now a believer. She runs into the father of this baby, Abigail. She's like two and she's toddling around. And he's like, what's up? What the heck? And she said, well, she's healed. She's not cursed. Like, this is the truth. And the dude tried to get back in on her, the mom, once the kid's okay. And she said, well, you're gonna have to go to this hospital and hear about Jesus if you wanna have any chance with me. I'm not making this up. So he did. He became a believer. Then they got married and I've got a photo. I wish I had it on me. I've got it on my phone somewhere, but I got a photo of the flower girl at their wedding. It's Abigail. She's walking down the aisle carrying the flower. She's got a little white dress on. That's amazing. I know, but it's like, I'm telling you, I could tell you 20,000 stories if I knew them all. There every kid and, but that looks like the kingdom of God to me. This looks like, I mean, there's something about healing. I'm telling you guys. It's like, done a lot of stuff, but this is the coolest thing I've ever had a chance to even be involved in or see. You know what I think is sort of fascinating about this? Because again, my wife, she's in pharmacy and so she works for a healthcare system and it's a Catholic healthcare system. So they do have, you know, you can see, um, you know, messages about Jesus at the hospital and different things like that. But I, you know, just as, because she's in that, I've thought through, wow, how do we think about healing in the West? And you know, the stories you're telling about people mass coming to Christ and the impact that it has on communities and this healing. It's almost like we've gotten spoiled and we no longer think of the healing as Jesus doing the healing. We think about it as modern medicine. And it's just sort of, so, I mean, I think that the cure story has a lesson for folks in the West, as much as, you know, we might, you know, support it financially or what have you, and, and provide resource. The reality is all the healing that goes on anywhere is the same. It's always Jesus working through medical professionals. It's always Jesus healing others. And so we just sort of lose sight of that in the West. And I think these stories are really crucial to kind of rehabbing our perception of what's really going on here. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed with inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty? More families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability. When other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, sanctuary metals makes it easy to get started. Text guide to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text guide to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed with inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty? More families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability. When other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, sanctuary metals makes it easy to get started. Text guide to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text guide to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. Yes, I'm glad you said that on a few levels. Number one, there's also a strain of Christianity where I got people I've met who are believers. They're like, yeah, this isn't that great. So it's not really a miracle. Like because healing needs to be this spectacular thing where we don't use any scalpels, right? Yeah. And that counts. That's that's really healing. I'm like, no, no. And then what I tell them is, you know what? If you gave some money, this that'd be a miracle. But I don't all the time. But the other thing is. But the other thing is, even at cure, we can use that language like, hey, help heal these kids. We're healing kids. We're healing kids. And we are, but really we're not. We're doing all the stuff that we know and God's doing the healing, even at the micro level. If you like anybody who studies microbiology, come on. Right. I mean, the guy who started the Uganda hospital is a friend of mine, Dr. Ben. He's at Harvard. He's a he's a neurosurgeon and he's a believer. And he's like, we don't do any healing. Like it's all a miracle at the cellular level and below like this. Right. We don't fully understand what's happening. And so we do this ourselves. We've got to do this ourselves. So even at that level, it's a miracle. It's a miracle all the way through life itself. We're made out of dust. Right. Like, but but it's so beautiful to say, I want this girl to run or this boy to not be made fun of and do it in the name of Jesus. That's pretty, pretty amazing. Well, I'll tell you, man. I mean, when I look back at the history of science and you look back to guys like Newton, let's say, and, you know, he's able to do what he's able to do and come up with the theories that he's able to come up with because he he starts with the assumption that God ordered the universe. And so he starts looking for the consistencies within that universe. And that scientific enterprise, even as far back as Newton, is very much rooted in a deep conviction that God orders the universe. And so we can find consistency, not without anomaly because we live in a fallen world, but we can find consistency and partner with God in his ordering of the universe to do some of this stuff with him. We can be his hands and feet in the healing. And so, yeah, I think all healing is sort of miraculous. And, uh, and it is us participating with God in those things. And so, um, really important work that cure is doing, man. That's fantastic. I hadn't heard of the organization either. And so, uh, I'm, I'm glad to be kind of turned on to it. Yeah. I hope, uh, I hope you check it out because like I said, I just, there's not much, there's not much happening like that in the world. I'm kind of surprised. And I, and I never even thought about kids in other countries that have stuff that in America gets taken care of real quick. Yeah. And they're stuck with this forever. Like, so, yeah, thanks. Thanks for letting me talk about it. No, absolutely, man. Well, why don't we, why don't we kind of spin the discussion, flip over and talk about your book a little bit. Uh, you got this new book out. Life is hard. God is good. Let's dance. Um, and you know, I got to kind of flip through it before we had the interview. And so, um, talk a little bit about what motivated you to write it. You've written a few books, right? Yeah. Every time, every time I think, okay, I don't have anything left to say, that's it. That's enough words. But this was about like, because I'm in Christian radio, I interact with people and stuff. And I'll share stuff about not being anxious, especially during pandemic stuff or just where we are as a culture about Jesus saying we don't need to be anxious. And the weird thing is I get pushed back on it in a soft way from believers. Yeah, that's really awesome. But realistically, I mean, we're gonna be worried. I mean, realistically. No, Jesus is realistic. He's not crazy. We don't have to be anxious. And so this book is about that. It's it's and why people will think if you're at peace that you're

and crazy, but the reality is that they're not. So that's what I'm laying out in the book, like how to actually live that life where you're not anxious. Yeah, that's what a person. That's a big need for today, for the people of today. I think I know so many people, myself included, that never dealt with anxiety, and then 2020 comes in, you know, you have some financial hardships or different things happen, family issues, everyone's together for months, and it's like, ah, everyone's, you know, like... So I think that's a super important topic right now because it affects so many people. Yeah, well, and evil really is afoot. I mean, it's not a denial of what's going on, that there's stuff that's horrible that's happening in the world. But when Jesus was telling people they didn't need to be anxious, it was afoot then, too. Like, they're occupied, there's wars happening, there's every ism that we can imagine exists already back then. Like, everything that he's dealing with, injustice, lack of food security for these people, or they didn't have antibiotics, they have shorter lifespans. Like, it's not unrealistic. People are like, well, yeah, you could tell them that, but for us, like, no, it's still his way of living is a way to not be anxious. Yeah, I mean, he does talk about, you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, you know, you're gonna experience some rough stuff. And at the same time, Matthew 6, don't be anxious for what you're going to eat or what you're going to wear. And so, if we should almost be more anxious if we're not seeing what Jesus told us we'd actually see. That should make us more anxious. Literally said, in this world, you will have troubles, but take heart or be of good cheer. And then to say, you should still be of good cheer. Oh, you just don't understand. That's from believers saying that. Like, no, we need to grow up and be the sort of people that freak people out because we're hopeful so that they want to ask us, why? What's the reason for the hope that you have? We're supposed to be that weird the people that actually ask, why? What's up with your hopefulness? Yeah, I love that, man. One of my first books I talked about being strange in the right ways. And you know, it's like, we got to be strange in the right ways. We got to be so peculiar that people are like, what is up with those people? What is wrong with them? Yeah, so in anxious times, that's a real opportunity, isn't it? Because everybody else is freaking out. We have a serious anxiety and anger issue in this country. Seriously, deeply disturbed. And if we have people that aren't and are actually at peace, that's pretty sweet. What an opportunity. Well, and I think we're running into, you know, sort of, I've done a lot of work on social media, and one of the things I talk about in social media is it's trying to get us to do the opposite of what God's word says. God's word tells us to be slow to anger, slow to speak, and quick to listen. Social media tends to do the exact opposite of that. Let's be, you know, slow to listen, quick to anger, and quick to speak. And so we're under these sort of little forces that are pushing us out of being peculiar, you know, being strange. So there are practices we can put into play. One thing about social media or any media or anything, I've learned a lot from Dallas Willard about what you pay attention to determines who you're becoming. Yeah. Your attention is everything. I mean, God's very interested in who we're becoming. So I do talk about that a lot. Like, what am I paying attention to? How to capture thoughts when our train of thought starts going stupid places or anxious places or wrong. Like, okay, that's being human, but you can stop. You can capture that and then do stuff like what I call the, I say this is the most punk rock thing you can do in the world right now. The most punk rock thing you can do is memorize scripture. Like, that's just, who would do something like that? But then nobody can take it from you. Right. You've got it. They can't take it from you and you can arrest a stupid thought, a foolish thought, and start going back to that scripture again, like the Lord is my shepherd. I lack nothing. Yeah. This is doable and scripture's full of, like in lamentations, Jeremiah is like, everything's falling apart. The whole, all of Jerusalem is being destroyed. We're being destroyed. And then he says, yet this I call to mind and therefore I have hope because of the Lord's great love for us. We are not consumed. His compassions never fail. His mercies are new every morning. Literally, he's like, yes, all this stuff is going on. It's terrible. It's horrible. Yet this I call to mind, like you have to call it to mind. You actually have to go do it. And this is not pie in the sky religious talk. This is actually good mental health. You can talk to the way you're feeling. You can talk to that. David's like, why are you so downcast, O my soul? Put your trust in God. He's talking to himself. That's being mentally healthy. It's brilliant. It's a way to live that's going to lead you to less anxiety. Yeah, I just finished up a couple of interviews with folks who are kind of experts on lament, and we were talking about lament as a means of self-transformation. You know, that as we empty ourselves of these complaints, why is life the way it is? Why does this feel so bad? Why does this feel so unfair? You know, as we unload those feelings to God, it almost always comes back as, you know, lament almost always ends in hope and praise and thanksgiving. And so offloading some of those, like, man, I'm frustrated. Man, I'm, you know, I feel like life is too hard or whatever it is. It ends up, you know, reorienting us to God. It ends up allowing us to pay attention to him, to use your word, you know, focus in on him because these laments, God just isn't, God is so big, he's gonna take care of whatever our complaints are, or he's going to shift us so that we no longer see these things as something to complain about. In either case, you're better off. I need to go back and listen to that. I'll probably learn a lot, but I was listening to a Tim Ferriss book. You know who that is? Like a business guy. Yeah, right, Tim Ferriss. I was reading it. I think it's the four-hour work week. But he mentioned, I thought this was so interesting. He mentioned that he outsources everything to his personal assistant in India. So she schedules all his appointments and, you know, dental or whatever. She takes care of all that. He said he was really worried about something one day. And as a joke, he said, oh yeah, he's talking to her. He's like, can you worry about this for me today? And she says, okay. And he said, this is what I thought was so funny. He said, the weird thing was it worked. He's like, just knowing somebody else was worrying about it helped me just like put it out of my mind and concentrate on other stuff. Like, that's genius. It's genius because like Old Testament and new, we get cast your cares on the Lord because he cares for you. Like literally outsource your worries. Better than a PA. He can actually do something about it. But that's what Paul is saying too, right? When he's saying, like, be anxious for nothing. Instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need and thank him for all he has done. And then the peace of God will guard your heart in Christ Jesus. Like then the peace comes. But he's literally saying, tell God what you need and then turn it to gratitude. And gratitude and telling him, like you're outsourcing this instead of being anxious, let him handle it. So literally be like, I can't handle this. I don't control next week, next year. I can't, I can't control people. God, you're gonna have to handle this. Be specific about it and then be grateful and that gratitude will chase out the anxiety. And it works. Like, it's actually genius. So I talk about outsourcing your worries and I got the idea from him, but it's actually biblical when it's focused on. That makes sense. Yeah, totally. Yeah. No, I find it fascinating that within the Christian community, and I suppose I shouldn't find it fascinating. I mean, this is life stuff, right? I mean, all of us struggle with different things, but. I do find it odd when Christians discount the power of obedience and just following the way of Jesus as the best possible strategy we can implement to deal with all things in life. Like, well, yeah, Jesus did that, but I know he was resurrected and glorified and all that. I get it. But surely there's a better way to live. And you're going, well, is there though? He's a genius. And it's so funny. I can catalog this. It's so funny how the stuff he says gets verified over and over and over by social psychologists. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This actually isn't good for you. Like, how about this? I just read recently, I think it was New York Times. They did an article about meditation where you clear your mind. And they actually said they had experts saying it actually makes you more anxious. You can't clear your mind. And so what happens is your base anx

Other stuff that's actually gonna help you. Once again, Jesus is right. Another thing I point out on worry and anxiety, there's a guy, he's a neuroendocrinologist at Stanford, primate neuroendocrinologist, Robert Sapolsky. He's a militant atheist in his own terms, but he wrote a book called Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free Retirement Defense Guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. And it's all about that fight or flight response that is like anger or worry. So we have a perceived threat. Your body reacts in a number of ways physiologically. Your cortisol spikes, your adrenaline spikes, your blood pressure goes up, insulin level changes, blood sugar. You want to evacuate your kidneys or whatever. It's all to make you faster. It's all to make you stronger to fight or flight. But he said in animals, like a zebra, they see a lion, that happens to make it faster. But it's over in 30 seconds one way or the other. Humans, though, get ulcers because we can keep that in our system forever. And he's like, it'll kill you. It'll change your skin. It'll make you gain weight. It has all these deleterious physiological effects. He's talking about that as a militant atheist. And his conclusion was about all this stuff. He's like, humans can even imagine threats that aren't even real that could happen next week. Animals don't do that. And guys, his conclusion was, you know what, students, I listen to his course. It was one of the great courses from Stanford. We should be more like the animals. They're not worried about tomorrow, what could happen. It's not going to lengthen your life one bit to worry about tomorrow. Be like the animals. Think about them. I've heard this before. Jesus is a genius. Can we trust that, his way of living? But what happens is people get itchy about it. Whenever I talk about doing the stuff that Jesus told us to do, they're like, oh, but that's not grace. Like, it's not opposed to grace. Grace isn't opposed to effort, like doing the stuff that Jesus, grace is opposed to earning. But we are actually supposed to obey the stuff Jesus told us. And it turns out it really does, it's for our own good. It makes us healthier. I'll tell you what, man, I mean, I love to point people to something like Deuteronomy 17. So Deuteronomy 17 is kind of an odd place to go, but I'm an Old Testament guy, so it's not that odd for me. Deuteronomy 17, it's the instructions for the Israelite king. Now, there wasn't a king back then, but there's these instructions for it. And one of the instructions involves the king writing a copy of the law every year. And I mean, I go back to your point about, you know, the most punk rock thing we can do is memorize scripture. Here's the king doing that punk rock thing. Like, he's writing the entire copy of the law. And I think part of that had to do with, it's a reminder to the king that he is not the top dog, right? That he sits under the authority of this law and thus sits under the authority of God. And doing that every year would have been a tedious enterprise and a real tangible reminder that, oh yeah, God's in charge here. But I think the other aspect of it is that as he's writing the law, he's learning the law. He's reflecting on that law. He's understanding, he's immersing himself in this law so that now, as he goes out to do his kingly thing, he's got all of this knowledge to draw on as he does it. And so it's not just about the authority, it's also about the knowledge gained by immersing yourself in it. And I think it's akin to what you said about memorization, but I also think that it has something to say to the way we interact with the world around us. Part of the reason that we're not good, I think, at recognizing that the way of Jesus is the right way to go is because we don't really fully grasp the way of Jesus. And the more we immerse ourselves in this, I mean, just to tie a few threads together, it's like memorization, attention, you know, all of these different things. Like, once you get it, you get it. And you'll increasingly continue to get it. So working at the radio, I so thoroughly agree. I don't mean to interrupt. No, you're good. So I interact with a lot of people. Yeah. I'm shocked. No, no, like you said, I shouldn't be shocked. The lack of discipleship. It's like it's not even taught. Like, why not have a marquee out in front of a church that says, Tuesday nights at 6.30, we'll teach you how to follow Jesus. And then you show up and we talk about, here's how to love your enemies. Here's how to put off things. Here's how to not be anxious. Here's how, like, we'll talk about actually how to do that. Then you need to be a disciple and you can teach other people how to do it. It's really not. I don't know why. I did it in my neighborhood fairly recently. It's like guys, seven to eight. It was guys in the neighborhood come to the back patio in our courtyard. We're going to talk about how to follow Jesus for one month. And like, they would stick around after work, but that was up to them. It was a blast. But like, you can do this, but for some reason we talk about everything else, but actually how to follow Jesus. I don't understand it. Yeah. I don't know. That's a big thing. That's a big thing we're trying to solve, actually, with He's Full to God. We're trying to create resources, turnkey resources for churches to have that because like you said, it's a simple thing, but I don't know why people aren't doing it. I mean, some are, but the vast majority is not. It's a joke. I talked about, well, a 90% joke. I talked about doing a followership conference that wasn't a leadership conference. Just nothing against leadership conferences, but like it's always a leadership conference. Yeah. And we decided, no, let's not make a joke. Let's do it. So we're actually doing this in April at a college. Yeah, it's good. It's a, I don't know how it's going to go, but it's literally, we're going to teach you how to follow Jesus over the course of the weekend. It's stuff you can share with other people. And maybe you'll do a better job than what we do, you know, but we are going to talk about how to actually follow and do the stuff that he told us to do. So yeah, it's just, I don't know. Just I'm trying and I'll let you know how it goes. We'll see. No, it's awesome, man. I mean, I think I, you know, putting out a shingle, it just sort of happened. I think it grew organically through a couple of relationships, but I'm running an eight-week study in the gospels with a group of guys. And you know, it's pretty awesome. I mean, we do it on zoom. They're actually in a, they're in Virginia. And so we do it all on zoom, but we're going through Matthew's gospel and we're just talking about what, what's Jesus doing here? What's Jesus teaching here? How does this apply to our lives? You know, what does this, what does it look like for us to be more like this as opposed to the way we are right now? And it's been, and we're about halfway through it, but it's been a great time. And I think it's, it's so simple. You're just reading the gospels. It's not difficult. And I don't quite see that it needs to be that much more complicated, honestly. And how awesome would it be if we, if we did learn his ways and became more like him, we would be different from other people instead of so similar and in a way that's really hopeful and a blessing to them and really life-giving. Absolutely. Yeah. I don't want to get on a soapbox or anything, but so many churches I feel like are doing like at the movies and those things are great because it brings non-believers in. But what about the people that have been coming for 25 years that really haven't seen the, the meter move in their relationship with Christ? Like, are they really a disciple? And I, unfortunately, I just see that in all big churches or everywhere I go online and everything. So I think it's definitely a big problem. Well, Willard again, he calls it the great omission because in the great commission, it's like, oh, go into all the world, dot, dot, dot, baptizing people. You're like, that's not, that's the dot, dot, dot is teaching them to obey all the things I have commanded you to do. Like

Definitely showcasing, not necessarily giving principles about how to do this, but demonstrating through pictures and stories. And from what I was able to read, I thought it was great. Oh, thanks. Thanks. Well, I hope you like it. I try to, I'm not good at a lot of stuff, and I'm no scholar either. I just, I'm always learning, always learning. But I do try to take whatever I'm learning and say it in a different way that maybe people aren't used to hearing. And I also try to be funny. That's up to the reader. Not everybody's going to think it's funny, but I like that helps me learn. And so that was the idea using a lot of stories from my past too, like traveling to these hospitals, like a lot of those stories. I got to see stuff. I can't believe I got to see this stuff. So it's kind of cool. It's almost a Forrest Gump thing, the stuff I've gotten to see and do. And I love talking about that because you can, once you see the kingdom of God, it's really hard to resist. It's just too good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, dude, before we, because we're getting close to time to kind of wrap up, but tell us a little bit more about the followership conference. That was something we hadn't talked about before the interview. You kind of came up organically. I feel like we ought to spend a little more time on it. Oh, sure. Well, um, we are going to do this at Grace College. You can go to brandhansen.com and register. It's Grace College in Indiana. It's a nice little town in northern Indiana in April. And, uh, I think we'll have several hundred people there. And, um, it's been neat too, like, uh, Mike Donegan from 10th Avenue North is going to be there. He saw the way you're doing it. He's like, I'm there. You tell me what you want me to do. I'm like, do you want to do music? Yeah, he is. But, so he'll be there. Josh Havens from the Afters is going to come do some stuff too, which he's a great guy. Like, um, Lance Ford, who's an author will be there. Sherry and I are going to be there. But we're literally going to talk about how to love your enemies, how to be done with anger as a part of life. Like how to, how to actually do the Jesus stuff. And we'll have a lot of food trucks and we're going to make it fun. I'm inventing a sport. I don't know if you guys like, this may totally bomb, but I haven't played it yet, but I invented a sport called dance ball. So we're going to get, we're gonna play kickball with a live DJ and you have to dance around the bases. Like, even if they're throwing the ball at you, you have, you cannot stop or you're out. Yeah. I think with a lot of DJs, it's gonna add something. And, um, just for fun, we'll be doing that kind of stuff. So that's, that's the conference. It's going to be very un-conferencey in some ways, but. Yeah, I think it's cool. You've always been known for doing things differently. Uh, James, just so you know, there was a tour that we did with Air One and instead of, um, the people waiting for the artists to come in and kind of high five, it was like the artists were waiting. It was a flipped reverse, right? Like, so it was like Uno reverse card slam down and, and, and I think people didn't know. And I got to see a couple of them and I just remember thinking, all we did was change something just slightly, but it literally like changed the whole dynamic of it. So I think your conference is going to be amazing. I'll have to take a look at that and see if I'm available. Maybe I can come down for it. Love flipping things upside down. Yeah. Like, so we had a red carpet and people came in as soon as they came in the doors of the venue that all the artists are there to introduce themselves and high five and treat them like VIPs. That's pretty cool. Yeah, I love that. The celebrity thing is not, it's not a favorite thing for us. So we like doing all that stuff. It's amazing. Well, Brent, this has been awesome to connect to you, man. It's great to know you. Um, I, I love that you can say KMOX and I understand what that is. Um, and it's like, you know, it takes me back to my childhood channel 11 KMOX, you know, um, and, uh, yeah, it's a lot of fun, man. So it was really great to meet you. Um, we'll put, we'll put everything in the show notes so that people know where to find you. Um, and can register for the followership conference in April, right? And, uh, and then, uh, check out brand's new book, uh, check out his podcast, um, and, uh, and his radio show. So you got a lot going on, bro. Thank you. If you guys want to go to spring training, let me know. I'm here. I'll get you set up. Nice. Nice. And everybody came down there too. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, no, you're good. Yeah. Cured.org. I mean, it, there's no other place to send them, but cured.org, right? Um, cause we talk a lot about that. I think it's important to get the word out about that cured.org. So folks will, we'll have all that in the show notes, but, um, yeah, Brant, awesome to be here. And, uh, yeah, see about taking me up for spring training. That'd be fun. All right. Well, thanks everybody for being here. Thanks for listening. And we will catch you on the next episode of thinking Christian. I just want to take a second to thank the team at life audio for their partnership with us on the thinking Christian podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more. In a world where relationships are easily broken and often discarded. The Rebuilding Us Marriage Podcast is your lighthouse, guiding the way to hope, restoration, and transformation in Christ. I'm your host and marriage coach, Dana Shea. Join me as we discuss the necessary tools for rebuilding marriages from adversity, betrayal, and disconnection. It's time to reignite love as we rebuild marriages from the ground up. Listen to the Rebuilding Us Marriage Podcast on lifeaudio.com or wherever you get your podcasts.