Thinking Worship with Stephen McWhirter

Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I'm James Spencer. I'm here with Nate Girantano and Steven McWhorter is joining us. Steven, how are you this morning? I'm really good, man. Good to be on here, guys. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, do us a favor and just introduce yourself to us and give us a little bit of your background. I'm a human being. You're not an AI-generated avatar. I have arms and a face. My name is Steven McWhorter. I'm a worship leader. I don't know. Worship leader, recording artist. I don't know. I normally don't introduce myself credentially, so let's just say I'm a son of the living God. So, yeah, it's good to be on here. Perfect, man. Well, I know you and Nate know each other. How did you guys meet? We met. Go ahead, Nate. Yeah, we were at a, was that a label retreat or was it a management retreat? Yeah, it was a red letter. Red letter, yeah. Red letter, Brad and those guys out in, Brad's now the VP of like talent, I guess they call it, for The Chosen now. We were out there with them. Yeah, basically, I walked in and I was with my friend Plum and I was working with her at the time. And I was like, I walked in. We were out getting a cup of coffee and I came in and I was like, man, who is singing? And I was just like, I turned around and I was like, whoa, this dude's got an amazing voice. And just the anointing, it was like, all of a sudden I walked into worship. It was awesome. That's great. Well, that's what I want to hear. Yeah. Well, very cool. So what are you doing right now, Steven? Oh, I'm drinking coffee. Yeah. You gotta be more specific, bro. It's that time in the morning. I mean, I got mine. I got mine going as well. Yeah. Yeah. Where's your ministry taking you right now, man? Gosh, well, I'm in Louisville, Kentucky, and I've been doing this for, gosh, 20 years. I don't know. Last 10 as a songwriter, you know, really ministry-minded person, probably full-time for the last 10 years. And, you know, signed with Sony early on, kind of got into the industry and all that stuff, but I was never, I always felt like part of it, but not in it. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. So, you know, I live in Louisville. I'm only two and a half hours away, so I can still go and do stuff, but I feel like I'm able to kind of just, not that you can't be with Jesus in Nashville, but it's like a lot easier for me to be in Louisville with Jesus than to be in Nashville with Jesus. If that makes any sense. But, yeah, it's really great. And so the Lord's just kind of blessed that for me. And, you know, I think probably the biggest thing, and I'll share my testimony in a minute, which is part of kind of like, I'm just one of those people that really believe God's real and I believe it's all real. And I, at the end of the day, whatever all this is, we're going to blink and be in his presence, right? And we'll just from hindsight go, wow, all that other stuff that I thought was important really wasn't that important, right? Yeah. And I try to live from that place now the best that I can. I don't want to give this impression that I'm this super holy person, but I just, you know, I think for me, I, a couple of years back, I was like, you know what, Lord, I, I want to use social media and like online thing that you've given me to like really build your kingdom more. And I put this song on TikTok called Come Jesus Come. And it went viral, whatever. And it enabled me to be able to start going live on that platform. And I started going live on Facebook and Instagram and all that. And that's fine. And I would just go on, worship Jesus. I'd never go, I'm an artist, check out my music. I would never do that. I just, just worship Jesus, share the gospel, share my testimony. And I would start asking people if they wanted to give their life to Jesus. And people would say yes. And we'd pray with them, connect with them, connect them to a church, that kind of stuff the best we could, right? I'm just one person, but now there's a bunch of moderators across the country that help me. But since September of last year to today, we've seen 37,000 people come to Jesus on these online experiences. And it all started. Yeah. And it all started with, you know, really just a song about the longing for Jesus to return. And actually part of that for me, and if you're watching this and you're a believer and listen to this and you're a believer and you're like, social media, I just don't want anything to do with it. That's fine. If it's out of a place of like, I just want to be with Jesus. That's great. But if you feel called to reach people with the gospel, like with Jesus, with the good news, I don't know that you can poo-poo, you know, social media. You literally have access to millions of people. There's this like meme that goes around this video. This guy who like pretends to like die and go to heaven and he walked in and there's Peter and there's Paul and here's all the disciples. And they're like, oh wow. You know, he's like, wow, you're Paul and you're Peter. And oh my gosh, it's so amazing. He's like, yeah, but you're from like 2023. You have the internet. How many people have been saved? He's like, I just use it to watch cat videos, you know? It's like, so I'm like fully aware of that. I'm like, okay, I could go, you know, TikTok's evil and all this stuff's evil. Well, people are still going to be on it by the millions. And, or I can go, you know what? This is awesome. I can reach millions of people with the most important thing on the planet in the universe, Jesus. You know, I don't have to go to the whiteboard about what people need. It's Jesus. It's super amazing. And so, yeah, I just started loving people and like trying to really love people and love Jesus. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I really was like, okay, I'm going to stop trying to get people to come to things all the time. Not that I don't sometimes invite people to a show or something, but I'm going to stop going out now, check out my new music. And I'm going to just go, how do I love people well, you know, with this? And the Lord's just been on it, man. I mean, like crazy. Come Jesus come has blown up. It's like K-Love right now and in research, I think top four on K-Love right now, which is crazy. Wow. And so the Lord's just really breathed on it. But at the end of the day, bro, it is legitimately the best that I can keep it from my end, all about him and just really focused on seeing people get saved. The only metric that matters is how many people are actually coming to Jesus through this. How many people are being drawn closer to him through this? That's the only metric that matters, you know? So yeah, I think that's cool, man. I mean, we, I have an interesting relationship with social media too. I mean, kind of the same as you. I've done a lot of writing on it and really see the detrimental effects of social media on certain groups. And, but I think you're right. I think that if we can keep our focus on, listen, let's serve Christ and let's make sure what we're doing is serving Christ and focus there. You know, the detrimental effects of social media can sort of be mitigated. It's all about fixing our eyes on Jesus and, you know, really staying in that lane as opposed to veering off into cat video land or, you know, things that are worse. Or, you know, the worst case scenario of news. I think, you know, the part about it is I'm, again, I'm saying like, not everybody is called to be on social media. Some people are just called to pray. Some people are just called to be with their kids. Some people are called, but the reality is it's the marketplace for most of civilization right now. And if we get off of it out of a

Yeah, This is what I'm talking about, and especially worship artists, recording artists, speakers, preachers, and people that say they don't like it. I think sometimes at the end of the day, and I get it, it's that you're worried you're gonna fail before you start. So this doesn't really have anything to do with it being bad or to you. It's just that you're, you know, but you know all that, if it dies, is beautiful because who cares what people think? You wanna love people, but you know, it doesn't matter. Yeah, I think at the end of the day, man, I mean, I always, Matthew 6 always sort of captivates me. You know, Jesus is walking with his disciples and he's looking at these folks who are giving in a certain way and he's like, hey, don't give like that, give like this. And then he's like, don't pray like that, pray like this. You know, don't fast like this, you know, don't fast like that, fast like this. And I think we could just as easily say, instead of social media is good or bad, we could say, look, don't do social media like this, do it like this. And I think there's something that we have to sort of discern there. And you know, the ministry that you've got going, you've obviously thought through it. You know, you're seeing the value of it. You're seeing how it can be used for the building up of the kingdom of God and you're trying to use it in a way that is aligned with being a disciple of Jesus Christ. And so, you know, the mechanism isn't necessarily evil in and of itself, right? Any more than in Jesus' context, giving to the poor or prayer or fasting was evil in it inherently. It was picked up and those practices were used in really bad ways that were not reflective of who God was. And so I think, you know, in the same way, we've got to be able to think through that and really bridge. And instead of demonizing all these things and just kicking them out outright, you've got to use it. And I get it, but you know, for me, again, I am the person that, like, at the end of the day, I know I'm going to be in the presence of the Lord and I'm gonna be like, what was I really worried about? And, you know, China could have my social security number of 37,000 people are gonna say, take a look, a million people get saved, I'll move there. I love it. That's awesome. Priorities, you know what I mean? Hey, before we move to your testimony, I've had this question. We've had a few different music artists on and like sports folks and that kind of stuff. And I keep wanting to ask this question. I just haven't had the opportunities here, so I'm gonna ask you. So, you know, my background was all academia. And so, you know, in academia, you sort of, you know, push up your glasses and read a bunch of books and study and write and all that kind of good stuff. And, you know, in academic circles, you always hear about this challenge of, you know, the study of God's word becomes too academic. It's no longer a worshipful experience. It's just sort of that, you know, basic, you know, blocking and tackling. Here's how you study the word and this is what I have to do. And so whether I enjoyed it or not, it's still not a worshipful experience. I went to Bible college and I saw a lot of professors that were just going through the motions, you know, it's a tough thing to avoid. And I think, you know, over my career, I've sort of had moments where it's been a little drier and I haven't really, you know, felt it's a worshipful experience versus others where, you know, I just love digging in and that's where I really connect with the Lord. And so here's my question after that little narrative. Sure Do you get that same challenge as a performer, as an artist, who's, you know, you are making a living doing worship music and writing music and those kind of things. And so I'm wondering if you have that same dryness. Or well, you know, I'm hoping, I'm hoping, brother, you got coffee, so I know you're, you know, you're not. I'm good. I'm good. But I do wonder, you know, if it's something inherent to the academic life, you know, or whether, you know, worship has the same problem. I think anyone that starts to have any kind of eyes on them through the gospel, you know what I mean? Like you've, you're a worship leader, you're a pastor, you're a speaker, you're a writer. It gets hard to not read the Bible without going, that would make a great sermon, or that would make a great topic, or that would be a great song. I think it's hard for anybody to do that. So one of the things that people always ask me, it's like, what advice do you have for me as a worship leader? And I'll be like, spend, well, here, I'll say this, worship out of the overflow. And what that means to unchurched that, it's been so much time in the secret place, like in the place where nobody's watching, just being with him to be with him, just singing to him to sing to him. So songwriters, I'll say, don't hit record on voice memo. Don't, don't make notes about how it's gonna be a great sermon. Don't, you know, don't just, just be with him and spend so much time in that place. I mean, even 20 minutes a day would be a blessing for some people, right? That it starts to become the overflow of who you are. So if you're on a stage or if you're doing a podcast, or if you're speaking or you're writing a book, it's now the overflow of who you are when nobody's watching. And that is hard to do. I get it. So it's just like anything else. It's a discipline to make yourself just be with him to be with him. That's good, man. Thanks. That's... No, yeah. I don't think that just applies to academia, no. I think it applies to everyone in the ministry that the Bible is a part of what they do at all. It's going to be, I know, even for Christians, it's hard not to read the Bible and go, oh, this will really fix that person who's got this problem that I want to tell, you know, show them, or this will win that argument. I think it's constantly a thing. I think just being with him to be with him, he's always want to talk to you. He's always want to teach you something. He's always want to draw you closer to him so that you can draw others closer to him through your life. You're listening to Thinking Christian on Life Audio. Our guest is worship leader, Stephen McWhirter. And when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about honesty, humility, and healing. That's coming up right after this. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide. Or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. I went to Cincinnati Christian University. Oh, cool. Cincinnati Christian University just got my associate's degree. Nice. Just the Bible, that's all. Yeah. That's awesome. They did make me read a lot of philosophy. I'm sure that's the case. It was exhausting. You know, I did some papers on Kant. It was, it was, uh... Unlearning a lot of that was the hardest thing more than learning it. But, uh, yeah, if I say anything about college, it was that benefited me was teach you gotta be a good learner. You know, how to be a good researcher and writer. So we were working on my book and stuff. And that really helped me um prepare me for this. Sweet. Great. Well, what led you to Bible college? I mean, what's your, share your story a little bit. When did you come to Christ? You know, what was your life like? That kind of thing. Sure. Yeah. Bible college is a blip in it all, it feels like. Sometimes I forget I went to Bible college. Uh, but yeah, I've got the student loan debt to prove it. So I guess shout out to Cincinnati Christian. They're like, you owe me money. Where's that guy at? I'm just kidding. Yeah. Um, yeah, no, my, my dad was like an evangelist. Uh, and we traveled all over with him. He mostly church camps as a kid in the United States. And, uh, but the truth is the guy that I saw about a pulpit and the one that I saw at home were two different people. I'd seen get up, preach about Jesus, but at home I'd seen physically abuse my mom. And I said, if God's real, he's not good. And I

really vicious place, man. And there were people praying for me, like really interceding, praying for me. I'm talking pulling over on the side of the road, ugly crying, boogers coming out of the nose over me coming to Jesus. Like real deal, right? So the Lord's after me. Somebody comes and gives me this book called The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that book, but Lee's a friend of mine now, which is crazy. But they gave me this book and having told you how much I hated Christianity, this is the parting of the Red Sea moment, you know what I mean? Like in my story, in my opinion. Because I accepted the book without like cussing anybody out. It's like a blur, right? I'm like, cool, whatever. Take the book. It's 3 o'clock in the morning. I've got drugs on the side table next to me. Nobody's playing a harp or something softly and quietly in the corner. It's just me, and I know he's in the room, right? And it's the kindness of a very real God. I keep saying this, man, gosh. A very real God to meet a wounded pastor's kid in a place like this, right? And we begin to have this internal dialogue. Like I know these aren't my thoughts kind of a thing, right? And it's like, Stephen, I'm real. I'm good. What are you going to do about it? You know, I've got a purpose for your life. What are you going to do about it? I just remember being like, God, I want to give you my life. I want to quit all this addiction, all this darkness, all this depression, all this anger that I've known for so long. God, I want to, but I can't. You know, when you're in the presence of the Lord, you're not in a church service on Sunday morning. Not that you can't be in the presence of the Lord there, but in this setting that is seemingly impossible to get saved in, and you really meet the real thing. There's no saying the right churchy thing. There's no pretending. He knows what's up. You know what's up. So I'm like, God, I want to. I cannot do it. There's no way. This is all I've known. Over 11 years of addiction. I can't imagine doing anything else. There's no way. I just remember a thought more powerful than words. The Holy Spirit spoke something into me that changed me for the rest of my life. And I feel like I'm always trying to hold on to this moment in that room, no matter how far away I get from it. And it's this thought, Stephen, you won't do it. I'll do it. You know, Ephesians, it says, you know, I think Ephesians 2, it says, you know, you're saved by grace. This isn't something you could boast about. It's a work of God, right? But there is a work that the Father expects of us, it says in John, right? The only work the Father expects of you is to believe, like to take him at his word. And that's what I did. I believed him like I believe I'm breathing air right now. And I fell to my knees and I gave my life to Jesus in that room, ugly crying on the floor, boogers coming out of my nose, right? And I give my life to Jesus. I literally quit everything. You know, don't get mad at me, but I literally quit everything overnight. And I always tell people that are in addiction, because I travel all over talking about this and sharing the story and have for years. I always say this is important. In the gospels, Jesus never healed anyone the same way twice because every story has a purpose and your story is important. If it takes five times and you fall at the feet of Jesus and you mean it, he is going to use your story to change the lives of people around you. And that's what happened with me. And that was it. I mean, at the end of the day, I went from addiction to redemption, meth addict to worship leader because God's real. I mean, it's all real. It's crazy. It's all real. It's wild. And so here I am today, you know, watching the Lord use me in a way I would never in a million years thought if you told me 20 years ago in that room, you're going to be telling your story and you're going to see thousands of people come to Christ through your life, which is, so I don't know if anybody is hearing that, that by chance happens to be on a Christian podcast. It's not a Christian. I don't know how you got on here and I'm shocked if you've listened this far, but if you are, you know, if God did that with me and this isn't just a cute thing to say, I don't have a church. I want you to come join. I don't need money from you. I don't need you to follow me. But if he did that with me, I promise you I would have been the last person you thought would give their life to Jesus. But I'm telling you, man, what does God want to do with you? There's no telling. And you're not meant to settle. You're not meant to stay in this place where you're like, man, you can't trick me into being something I'm not. I know me. I'm telling you from experience through my life. Not because somebody taught me to say this because I know it to be true. Is that you can't know who you really are for real. The real you, the you God spoke before the foundation of the earth. You can't know who you really are until you give your life to Jesus. That's the real you. The you fully alive is the real you. Yeah. I think that's something that we first connected on, Steven, when I first met you because I'm a PK too. And I know that struggle all too well. And I kind of relate to some parts of your story. But I think we get kind of calloused because we're, you know, forced to go through the motions. I mean, I pretty much was born and raised in the church. My dad was an evangelist too. And so that's just incredible. I think anyone that hears this, like you're saying, and it will go out there beyond just our Christian audience. And I'm just excited for people to hear that because if he could reach you, that story, I mean, he could reach anybody. If he could reach us, if he could turn my hardened heart from what I've seen with, you know, growing up as a PK too, it's like, God has a, I had his knowledge here, I think in my head, just because I was indoctrinated with it. I was forced to do it. But then making the connection from my head to my heart, whatever that distance is, I remember hearing that one time, uh, you know, the 12, 13 inches, whatever it is. But that was crucial for me. And 18, thank you. 18 is a journey. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So that was my story in a nutshell too. So I just love that. And I remember connecting to your story and I'm like, man, that's so inspiring. And I know it's reached a lot of people. So that's incredible. Thank you for sharing that. No, thanks for having me on guys. It's good. Well, as just sort of a follow-up to that, where does music come in? I mean, you're, you know, you described sort of your, your living life and addiction. Are you playing music that whole time? Are you, are you involved with music at all? Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. You know, I was in metal bands throughout my teens, screaming my head off, seeing people beat each other up in front of me. It was awesome. But, uh, it was awesome. But, uh, yeah, so I was, I was doing all that and, um, you know, when I, when I gave my life to Jesus, I think somebody said, Hey, you should, you know, get a job at this church over here. I was like, gosh, that's crazy. But, uh, never underestimate just how hard up a church is for a worship leader, right? He's like, he's like, meth addict, we'll take you. Come on. Uh, you can be our contemporary worship service guy. And I always remember them, I always remember them being like sliding me a list of songs I'm allowed to play. I'll never forget when I got the job and I think the coolest thing on the list at the time was, I can only imagine, you know? And I was like, oh my gosh. But look, when you've, when you've met the real thing, like, you know, the Lord, um, and you get to sing to him, it's not cheesy. It's like, he's real. I mean, my gosh, I was grateful to do it. So, yeah, that was kind of the beginning of that. But yeah, it's been in my DNA my whole life. So it was a natural transition. I did stop. I was, you know, a worship leader at a church for like 10 years or something. And, uh, I'm not against working at a church, but it wasn't for me. And, uh, God was calling me to something else. I think sometimes we think, oh, I'm a believer. And if I want a job, I got to get it at a church. And, you know, it's like, he's the Lord. He's got ideas that you don't have for things that is pretty awesome. And, uh, so yeah, I just started walking through doors with him and he led me to this thing that I would

That was basically it, man. It was very much crazy. And so since then, it's just been learning how to not just do what people do in those scenarios, but actually partner with the Lord and make decisions with him still. And that's hard to do when you have a lot of people telling you, this is how you do it, this is what you do. But you know, we know that any story, if you really pay attention to the good ones, like I said, it doesn't, it's not, there's no like, you wouldn't write down how you got there, you know, it wouldn't be like the plan. Do you find it, I mean, you're obviously big live on the social media platforms as we mentioned, but is there a difference in the way you're... I don't know exactly how to phrase this, but, you know, having gone to concerts and stuff like that before, right? And you kind of have the adoring crowd singing along with you, cheering, all those kind of things versus performing live on social media where you're still getting a response from people, right? It's not that real-time response. I mean, what's the difference for you when you're doing one versus the other? I hope there's not. I mean, don't get me wrong, when you hear people worshiping, like, I don't really do concerts. I don't really do performances. That sounds like a holier-than-thou comment, but I really intentionally set them up as worship, you know, like we're there. I'm there to disappear. It's just you and Jesus, you know? And so, I mean, in those environments, it's pretty much the same thing. It's like, I'm just worshiping Jesus, you know what I mean? And I have moderators paying attention to comments and stuff like that. So I don't, I try not to do anything else. I do stop. It is a little different on the live streams, though, because live streams are like, unlike a live setting with people there in the room, they're all there, that's it. On a live stream, though, I'll say this is different. It's like a faucet of just constantly new people coming on during the process. So it's not like a hundred people or a thousand people jump on and they're just on there for the whole time and that's it. It's a thousand people every so many minutes. Like, over a number of time. Yeah, over and over. So you have to, there is some repetition to what I say in between things, which is like, you know, calls to come to Christ and share the gospel and those kind of things. I do have to repeat some of those things here and there with him, in partnership with him, in a way that it's genuine. And it doesn't seem to matter to people on there. They seem to get it. They know what's going on, you know? Well, they know you're casting the nets, right? You have to kind of cast them. Because sometimes, I mean, we've all done it. You hop on a live and then, you know, you get a phone call or your kid needs you. So you might only be there for two minutes. That's right. And God can use those minutes for, you know, just... Yeah. They could be impactful. It's just like hearing, it's just like when somebody gets in the car and they hear just what they're supposed to hear, you know? Only if they only have a car ride. Like, I think God can use everything under heaven and earth. And that's what you were saying earlier. And I just love that. And you're a great example of that. So where can people find this? Is there a schedule? I mean, obviously, you're social media, but... Yeah, it's been a little crazy the last couple months. I was only home six days in October. I mean, like, it's been, I've been touring. We have something on the books until December next year. And it's been pretty crazy, but I've taken all of December off. I actually turned down, you know, there's some tours and stuff. And I was like, nope, I'm staying home all of December and just... So I'm going to do my plan again. Lord can do whatever he wants. But I hope that I'm able to go tonight, even. Tuesdays, Thursdays, this month, of course, we have Christmas and stuff, where I'll come on at 9 p.m. Eastern time. But, and go live on those platforms. Usually I do Instagram, Facebook, you know, TikTok. Starting to do YouTube more as the YouTube's growing. But yeah, I mean, the way people would find out about it is worshipjesus.life. You go to worshipjesus.life. That's my website. It has links to everything there. More to come on Thinking Christian on Life Audio. Our guest is Stephen McWhirter, worship leader and recording artist. And you're listening to Thinking Christian. And we'll be back with the conclusion. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide, or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. I love, you're probably the only artist I know that, like, your website doesn't have your name in it. I think that's incredible. I'm not important, don't worry about it. No, I just think that it just speaks to, you know, some people say stuff, but you're living it. And I just really appreciate that about you, man. That's awesome. Yeah, but you know, 25, everything would have went just the way I thought it should. I would have not done that. You know what I mean? Like, if everything just blown up when I was 25, I don't know that I'd be sitting here today with a thing called worshipjesus.life and like really keeping it about ministry. You know, again, I always tell people, you know, the Lord, he wants your character ready for your destiny. Like, and so sometimes you got to go through some stuff before you can get there. Otherwise, you're not going to be very effective. You're going to probably make yourself miserable. Right. And those around you miserable. And so there was a lot of like, what is going on? Why isn't this working and that working? There's many years of that. And then when it does start working, I'm like, ah, I get it. I would have been terrible at this five, 10 years ago. I mean, it would have been awful, you know? Yeah. So, yeah. I think we try to do too much on our own, especially early on. I know I did. And it's like, then you have the realization, like, why am I trying to, you know, take the helm here? Like I should do, it needs to be aligned with him anyway. So, you know, I know it's cheesy, but take the wheel. Like you're going to get me to the destination more straight and more impactful than I could myself. So I think it's just dying to ourselves and kind of what we want, that control. I know that's how I was. So. That's good, bro. Yeah. Well, man, I'll tell you, just sitting, listening to you and hearing about your ministry and what keeps coming into my mind is this, uh, there's a book called The Overcoming Life. D.L. Moody wrote it. Um, it's a series of his sermons. And so, um, one of the last ones is actually on humility. And he ends it where he talks about, uh, if the gospel of Luke had been written today, it would have been signed by Dr. Luke. And, you know, Dr. Luke would have had his name all over it. And he says, but because it was written by Luke in this other time, Luke basically stays completely in the background. Like he's not trying to take credit. We're trying to figure out who wrote this thing. He didn't care. He's not Dr. Luke who wrote it. He's the one who just sets forth Jesus's life and stays in the background. And as you're talking, as you're describing your ministry, man, that's just the picture that came to my head. It's like, you're, you're kind of the, you know, Dr. Stephen sitting behind the scenes and uh, and just letting the music do the work and uh, presenting Christ um as a humble servant. So I very much appreciate that. And um, it's been great getting to know you a little bit. Um, yeah. Worshipjesus.life, everybody. Worshipjesus.life. Check out one of Stephen's uh live sessions on Instagram, TikTok. Do you do YouTube? Facebook. Is it all of them? Facebook's pretty big, but YouTube we're just getting ready to start doing. YouTube just getting ready to start. It's a little bit of a different animal. So it's typically people watch it that are already following you. Um, so I've got to kind of figure out how to do that, you know, because it's different. The other ones are more like you could have non-believers

Hi, I'm Nicolette Bell, host of the Everyday Prayers podcast. Each weekday, we take just a few minutes to focus our hearts on God's word through powerful, scripture-based prayers, designed for real life right where you are. Whether you're in the car, folding laundry, or taking a rare, quiet moment for yourself, Everyday Prayers is here to help you connect with God and center your day with truth. Follow Everyday Prayers with Million Praying Moms wherever you listen to podcasts.