Defending Religious Rights: A Conversation with Brad Dacus

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I'm Dr. James Spencer, and I am joined today by Brad Dacus. He is the president of the Pacific Justice Institute. It's a nonprofit law firm that does pro bono work for religious organizations and various other causes. And so we're going to be talking today about a lot of his work at the Pacific Justice Institute, as well as his perspective on various things that are going on culturally and, you know, sort of how did you decide, hey, let's start a pro bono law firm? Yeah, that's a great, great question. Well, I became a Christian when I was in third grade. I was a member of a church. I attended a Baptist church. My family did. And Pastor Dr. Ted Cole gave the gospel message, which I wish more pastors did these days, with a solid message and an opportunity to pray and to come forward to receive Christ as my Lord and Savior. I went for it. I prayed the prayer. And in third grade, I became a little zealot, and I actually took on my first case in third grade. And people said, it's pretty young to take on your first case. Well, it didn't go to court per se, but I did discover that my elementary school, Sumner Elementary in Claremont, California, did not have a Bible in the elementary school library. And I thought, well, this is the most important book in the world. They should have a Bible. This is God's word. So on my own, with not talking to my parents or anyone on my own, I went and talked to the librarian. I said, well, there's no Bible. She said, that's right. I said, well, how do we get a Bible? She said, we have to petition for it. Well, how do I petition? Well, here's a form, and you have to fill it out and sign your name. And I learned to sign my name that year in third grade. So I signed my name and filled it out. We need a Bible. And they put in a children's living Bible in that elementary school library because of my petition. And I sort of got carried away after that. I guess I didn't stop. So I went into a lot of speech and debate in junior high, high school. And it was in high school that I had, of course, a major accident, if you're familiar with that as a part of my testimony. So I want to tell a little bit about that because I think that's a real powerful thing for people to know about. So I was a committed Christian. I was 16. I read my Bible every day. I taught second grade Sunday school. I listened to all the Christian albums, Amy Grant, Imperials. You know, I'm sort of aging myself here. So I was doing all the right things, if you will, that every quote unquote good Christian should do. But God's a heart specialist. He's not a skin specialist. He's a heart specialist. And he knew he was going to have to do some work on me to really prep me for what's for later on. So anyway, I was in a major auto accident. A motorcycle went right through my windshield. I had a little Opel GT. I was on my way to school. And it smashed in my windshield and smashed through my skull. This whole left side of my face has been completely reconstructed with hip bone and silicone. So yeah, it's sort of like the rest of the story, if you will, that many people don't know about. But because your program is so broad and wanting to add that big picture, I thought it'd be good to mention. I was on homebound education. I had a nurse 24-7. I had major brain damage. They had to put a plate here because of the damage to this whole part of my left side of my brain, which deals with logic, reasoning, analytical skills, speech communications. So I had major problems there, major damage. God is a great healer. And he did a miraculous healing, not because I demanded it, not because I affirmed it, but because of God and his grace and power, he decided to do it. And it was an incredible healing, miraculous healing that I experienced. But in that process of recovery, which was a long recovery, about a year and a half of total recovery. God taught me so much about himself, about his love. God does things not because we deserve it, but because of what Christ did on the cross and because of his awesome love. He taught me about his grace. Grace is God's riches at Christ's expense. And I didn't deserve healing, but God did it by his grace. And then also he taught me about his sovereignty. Now, you I know you, James, are a theologian, so I'm going to probably step on a number of feet in the process of talking about this. It's okay. Depending on depending on your theology, you know, but but the fundamentals of just being able to rely on God in everything that he's not just a token God and occasional visiting God. He's an ongoing, omnipresent, all loving God that I can really put my hope and trust in. I really don't have to be anxious in anything when I'm when I know that my God is with me and I can bring everything to him, every supplication with thanksgiving. So to talk about his sovereignty and then also his power that, you know, many times as Christians, we see God as, you know, doing miracles and things in the Bible. But today he doesn't do anything. His hands tied behind his back. Maybe the other hand is to, you know. But God can. He's the same yesterday, today and forever. Right. And if we believe that, then we know that he is still the God that has awesome power and can do anything even if we don't expect it. So my doctors told my parents that initially, look, your son has had major brain damage. Even if he lives, he still could be a vegetable. We may still have to pull the cord. End quote. That's not an exaggeration. I've heard people exaggerate their testimonies. That is a quote. And I had incredible healing and restoration. And I went on to go to Texas A&M University where I got my degree of all degrees, finance, with 3.86 in my major. Put myself through undergrad. And once again, that's using that left brain, logic, reasoning, analytical skills. I put myself through one of the top 20 law schools, University of Texas, top half of my class. And, you know, so it's been incredible. And I do lots of preaching, lots of speaking on both in terms of radio and media. I do lots of preaching at churches probably about every other Sunday. So I think God has restored the ability to communicate as well. So I'm very grateful. But that's sort of my the rest of the story that many people don't know about. And I think they appreciate all the more what God has done post law school and through the ministry moving forward when they understand the grace that God gave me starting out. Yeah, no, that's really amazing, man. And I mean, I think I think you're absolutely right. I think that there's a sense in which we don't see all that God is doing because we're trying to do it ourselves. And it takes those really low and low moments when we just absolutely can't do for ourselves for us to realize how active God actually is in the world. And so like a really powerful story, brother. I mean.

That's a blessing in your life has been amazing. And it's awesome to hear that he can actually, you know, that he healed that aspect of your brain. I was just listening to a podcast on from Ian McGilchrist, who does a lot of brain research and neuropsychology and those kind of things, and talking about the importance of the left hemisphere of the brain and how it is that analytical and speech and just really impressive, the healing that God did in your life and the work that you're doing now. So thanks for sharing that. It's fantastic. Yeah, it's, yeah, I read through all my medical records because I'm that kind of control freak kind of guy. My doctor says, you know, I really don't recommend you read all of this. And I read through it and I just remember thinking like, dang, I am really messed up, you know, like, and I looked at the CAT scan and this big whole mass part of the, you know, colored differently. And yet God is, you know, God's incredible. And I just think in my own life, how many times do I limit God because when I choose to worry and be stressed, that's basically me saying, I'm not trusting God. And yet when I do trust in God, God is able to do so much more, I believe, in my life. And so, but it's been exciting. And then, but this was all preparation. Had people say, well, gee, I wish he hadn't gone through that accident. Oh, how terrible. I said, oh, no, contraire. I said, that was the best thing that could have happened to me. And they go, really? I mean, you know, I get, I describe all the details, everything that happened and all this stuff. And they said, how can you say that? I said, well, had I not gone through that, I wouldn't have not had the heart preparation, the faith preparation that was going to be needed for what was later to come, which was Pacific Justice Institute, the ministry and what we do in terms of media. Yeah, I just, I don't think I would have been as usable in that had I not gone through that. So it's, you know, like Joseph and there's so many times in the Bible we forget where, you know, Moses was out on his own for a while. I mean, there's these tough, tough times that we just, we just forget about, but it's actually often a part of our preparatory process as Christians. And God's still working on me. Sometimes I share my testimony and I'll hear people say at the end of the sermon, I'll say, let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free Retirement Defense Guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. That 16-year-old boy will go, oh, praise the Lord. Verily, verily, he's the one that the Lord, you know, I go, no, no, no, no, no. Talk to my wife. After 25 years of marriage, she'll tell you my halo is still crooked. God's still working on me. And so that's also a part of the messaging as well, is the grace of God and that real humility, something else I learned is that real humility is not being awesome and then just not bragging about it. That's how I thought it was in high school, you know, like, oh, yeah, I'm really awesome, but, oh, no, no, I'm really not, you know. The reality is humility is recognizing the truth, which is that without God, we're nothing. But with God, we are everything. And humility is just giving glory where glory is due, which is all to the Lord. And so anyway, a little bit of my background, I thought that might be helpful. Oh, it's fantastic, man. I mean, so, you know, let's pivot into the Pacific Justice Institute. It's interesting, I think, that you call it an institute. Was that intentional? You know, did you always have sort of a teaching and I know you do the radio and you do the, you know, the show. So did you always have an instructional component that you wanted to draw in to some of what your legal practice? Yeah, we actually, we work hard to bring in interns, student interns, law student interns, even pre-law interns, a lot of homeschoolers, even some homeschoolers in high school, in fact. We love to give them those opportunities. And when they come in, they don't just, you know, staple papers and look through stacks of paper for how many times the word the is mentioned or, you know, tedious stuff. We really stretch them to understand a biblical and legal biblical worldview and how to use their skills and develop their skills. And some of them have come on, gone on to run for office and be legislators. Others, you know, have moved in, you know, legal professions and have influence. So that's a part of just one part of what we do at PGI, which is to that training, if you will. And it was interesting. We had one law school that they wouldn't allow us to participate in their externship program. And the reason was because they just assumed that we're going to be very strict and limited as to who can intern. And I'm an evangelical Christian. And I'm like, oh, no, bring bring them in, bring them in. So they said, OK. And we did so well, they then elevate us to the work study program where they actually help subsidize the pay of the of the interns. So it was it's it's an interesting opportunity and we love to. I love to spend time. Sometimes they'll be students who are thinking about going to law school and, you know, they'd love to ask questions. They feel like, oh, I can't talk to Mr. Dacus. His time is too valuable to me. When I look at a student who's thinking about going to law school or in law school, these are extremely valuable individuals. They have a, you know, I don't know how much time I have left, but these kids have a whole future ahead of them, maybe 50 years of practice and potential impact. So we really have a high priority of spending time with any student who has those kind of questions. Very cool. Well, you mentioned you had 220, I think, cases out standing right now. What's sort of areas are you dealing with? You know, some of maybe just some examples. I know you can't talk particulars, but just some of those, you know, big buckets. What are you what are you fighting on right now? Yeah, and I and I can give you some particulars. So you're OK, I'll give you some particulars. So we've got a number of cases in litigation. Of course, you know, first, it wasn't that long ago we had the huge tsunami of churches that were shut down across the country. And then the red states, they decided, oh, we're going to open up the churches with everyone else. But then you have the blue states like California and New York, Illinois saying, no, we're going to keep them all shut down, but we're going to open up the restaurants and everyone else. So that was the real rub. So we went in and we brought a case all the way to the Supreme Court, rapid fire emergency writ. And miraculously, the court in a very short period of time, three days to be exact, heard the case and decided it and issued an order both six to three ordering Governor Gavin Newsom of California open those churches now. And he did. And the governors of Washington state or Oregon, Washington state and other states, New York quickly started reversing their policies, realizing they're about to get their hands slapped big time as well. But then after that, we had a second tsunami. This other tsunami, which we're still dealing with, is dealing with countless numbers of people of faith, particularly Christians, who've been purged from their jobs on a massive scale, not because of the job that they're doing. No, it's because of their religious convictions about being vaccinated with a very controversial vaccine, the COVID-19 vaccinations. Initially, by the way, all they had was just this gut feeling like they prayed about it. Just felt uneasy about it all across the country. And now, of course, we realize, unfortunately, because of the evidence, the studies and the data that that generally speaking, they were right, that, you know, terrible, terrible consequences for so many who who went down that road. But but irrespective of whether they decided to take the vax or not is not the issue. The issue is whether or not these employees were treated fairly or unfairly being purged because of their faith and not reasonably accommodated. Title seven requires employees with sincerely held religious beliefs to be reasonably accommodated absent an undue burden or substantial cost to the company. That wasn't followed all across the country. And if we're dealing with people of other faiths, I think it would have turned out differently. I think they would have been much more accommodating. So we took on these cases

Did you mention, you know, if they were people of another faith, you feel like it would have turned out differently. Were there, and I'm not aware, were there, like, I know, I mean, I heard a lot of the Christian objections to the vaccine and, you know, through COVID, the closing of churches and those kind of things, but I didn't really hear much about, you know, closing down the mosques, for instance, or tabernacles, or, you know, Jewish people not taking the vaccine or Muslims or what have you. Are those stories out there and I'm just not aware of them, or are they of, you know, just a huge minority report? Yeah, there are some of other faiths who did not take the vaccine for religious reasons, but the overwhelming massive majority were Christians, Christians serious about their faith and committed to their faith. And there were some examples where some people said, yeah, I have a religious objection, you know, yeah, yeah, I went to church eight years ago and I like the book of Moab. That's a really good book in the Bible, you know. There's no book of Moab, but I'm just saying. So we had to filter out some of those things. Look, you're not sincere in your religious convictions, you know. But the overwhelmingly it was Christians. And in the past, when it came to accommodating employers, HR directors, human resource directors, generally, they know they have to reasonably accommodate and they would accommodate. But this was so unreasonable. We had people working at home for their company with no interaction with clients or anyone else, but if they weren't vaxxed, you lose your job. I mean, it was insane. It was just like this vax cult mentality with this hate towards people of faith who are not bowing the knee to this cult, wasn't using logic, reasoning, studies or anything, weren't accommodating. So this was a major thing we've taken on. We still have a lot of cases like that as we speak in litigation across the country, but that's only one fragment. We've also and we're also taking on cases dealing with people being criminally prosecuted. Now, mind you, in law school, my nickname in criminal law literally was Brad flipped the switch. That was my criminal law professor said, so what does Brad flip the switch think about this case? I'd say, of course, he's guilty. He should get the death penalty. You know, so I'm not exactly, you know, cut out to be a big pro criminal defense person. God has the humor because before the pandemic, in fact, about 30% of our cases were criminal defense and our defendants had something in common. They were all not only Christians, but they were in ministry and they were all being prosecuted for preaching and sharing their faith and the gospel in public places and being arrested and prosecuted for, quote, disturbing the peace. You know, crazy things. And this wasn't happening in communities that were reasonable, friendly, faith family communities. No, these were happening in cities where the city governments and the politics was very hostile towards people of faith, like Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Seattle, Boston, Miami. And so we've had to take on and fortunately, we now have offices all over the country dealing with these cases. And we are known throughout the nation as the organization to go to Pacific Justice Institute. If you're being prosecuted for sharing your faith in public places, in a public park, on a public sidewalk in downtown, go to PJI. That's what everyone, that's sort of the word on the street, if you will. And we are happy to defend them. We've had cases in Texas, Dallas, Texas, had a case in El Paso I took on myself personally, in Austin, Texas. And we prevail in these cases because the Constitution is on the side for free speech and religious freedom. Yeah, very interesting stuff. I mean, I think those are all, these are things that I think a lot of the public, I know myself, doesn't really see. It's actually something I was teaching a class last night and we were talking about the bias in reporting. And one of the points I usually make is, you know, the bias starts with the selection of what will be reported. It doesn't actually start with the reporting itself. It just starts with, what are we going to say to the public? That's a form of bias. And I think a lot of this stuff sort of gets buried underneath what's going on. It's very odd. I would have never thought a lot of that was happening in the U.S. It makes intuitive sense, right? I used to live up in Chicago and so you kind of, I kind of see how it would happen, but I never knew it was really going on. Fascinating. Yeah, yeah. It's too bad. Chicago, by the way, we have an office in Chicago. It was one of the most difficult places to open an office because we talked to attorneys and they say, I can work like in the suburbs of Chicago, but I don't want to work in Chicago itself. We have an attorney now who, Soren is his name. He's just absolutely fantastic and he actually leads a whole division of attorneys for PJI out of the Chicago office now. But yeah, we have other areas we're involved in now. A whole new wave we're dealing with, which I think you'll find real interesting, is dealing with the pronoun issues. And that is businesses and others who are being told, you have to use certain pronouns to affirm, if you will, and encourage, in fact, gender confusion, even if it violates your faith and conscience. So we've taken on cases defending teachers. We're taking on the Attorney General of New Jersey, who outrageously has demanded and ordered every public school teacher in New Jersey, irrespective of their conscience and convictions, to lie to parents if a child they think has gender identity dysphoria, mental condition. No, don't let parents know about it. Doesn't matter who the parents are. Just lie to them. And then at school, use a different name for the child, encourage their confusion, if you will, effectively. Use the pronouns, even be willing to help the children change into the opposite sex clothes at school. These are talking about little children, third grade, second grade. It is hideous because the facts, first off, science shows that if, or the studies show that if a child is just left alone in their elementary school and they have gender confusion, just left alone and not encouraged by some school district or teacher, the overwhelming majority of those kids will outgrow the dysphoria by the time they graduate from high school. Most by the time they reach the enter into high school. So it's really unreasonable. It's illogical. And it's also very harmful because most of these kids that will die early, they have continued depression. They have a much higher suicide rate, drug abuse rate. So it's very serious. So we at Pacific Justice, we take this to heart for that, but also for the rights of parents. We see parents' rights being violated tremendously. Tomorrow, I'm gonna be speaking at a rally in Sacramento, California on this issue of protecting kids, parents' rights to protect their kids. Our attorneys are actually gonna be speaking at similar rallies across the country and at state capitals because we see a huge threat to the rights of parents, courtesy of public schools and on the local level, but also, you know, all the way from the White House. You know, the president of the United States has demanded every public school receiving any federal aid that they do this, that they let boys go into girls' locker rooms to be naked with the girls getting out of the shower. I mean, I'm just being graphic because we want people to understand the serious of it. That they compete in female sports, which obliterates any opportunity for girls to have equal and fair treatment for athletics. So we're taking on these cases, but it's a problem at the local level with school districts and teachers unions, as well as all the way up to the White House and with the president of the United States that we presently have. Let me ask a question because, you know, when you're talking about parental rights, I can see this going two ways. And, you know, I've sort of toyed with writing an op-ed on, I have tattoos, so I have like, you know, two, three quarter sleeve tattoos underneath here. I'm sure it was before you were Christian. Sure, we'll say that, yeah. I'm teasing. But one of the things I've always thought, I'm like, if I, you know, my kids are in their teens, so they're 15 and then we have a three-year-old. And I'm like, if I were just to walk into a tattoo parlor and go, my kids really, I wanna give them face tattoos. I'd just like to give them face tattoos. I can't imagine anyone doing it. I can't even imagine it being quasi-socially acceptable when my kids are walking around with some big tribal piece on their face that people go, wow, that's a really good idea. Your parental right to do that to them, scar them for life, right? I just can't envision it. And so I guess the part that I'm wondering about is, as you sort of litigate for parental rights, how does, legally, where are the boundaries for those parental rights and how do we need to think about establishing those boundaries?

So that, you know, some crazy like me couldn't take their kid into a tattoo parlor and have them get a face tattoo, or so, you know, parents couldn't start transitioning a five-year-old through hormone therapy. Exactly. Well, the good news about the tattoos is that states have adopted laws that protect against parents like you, hypothetically, you know. I know you wouldn't actually do that, but that protects kids until they have to be usually 18 or maybe 21 before they can have any kind of tattoo whether parents consent to it or not. And I think that's very, very wise and discerning. We have some parents that, you know, may not be as thoughtful as others. They're out there. But the same way, we need protection for children for things that are even much, much more serious, which is having body parts cut off. Not just dyed with tattoos, but actually cut off, injected with hormones that permanently sterilize the child. So that's why we at Pacific Justice are working with states across the country to pass laws that forbid any gender transition or distortion, is the actual, the best word, because you really can't change someone's gender biologically and genetically. It's impossible. Neurologically, as far as the brain, you cannot change the gender of the brain, the brain's gender that the child has. And there's a distinctive big difference between a female brain and a male brain. So what we can do, though, is adopt laws, and we're helping legislators adopt laws, that are saying, no, kids, doesn't matter if they have parent consent or not, they cannot start anything dealing with gender transition or distortion until the age of, say, 18 or 21, I believe 26, frankly, because that's when the brain is fully developed for them to have the most competency, the highest competency, at least biologically, neurologically, to be able to make that decision. So we're working with states across the country to do that because in the past, we've always recognized that, yeah, parents have rights over their children, fundamental rights, but those rights are relinquished when there's a compelling state interest, i.e., children are not to be sexually molested. They're not to be physically harmed and abused. So if we're going to say that parents can theoretically have their child taken because they spanked their child with a belt and there's a little welt mark, which is how many states operate, which I think is a little extreme for taking children permanently from families, but if we're going to say that children can be taken for that, then surely there's a compelling interest to prevent children from being permanently sterilized with body parts cut off and permanently impacted both neurologically and physically and mentally. And so, I mean, I know there's a difference between law and logic, right? Like I get these distinctions sometimes. You'd love them to go together, but they don't always. But it just seems so logical that if you have that law about the welt or if you have the face tattoo laws or whatever, that this just seems like the logical next step. Like when we look at this and we say, no, it's changing an individual's body permanently. Why, you know, why have you met a lot of resistance on that sort of logic? How do people sort of reconcile this in their heads that you would even argue for it versus against it? You know what I'm saying? Right. Well, the radical LGBTQ, they're full of lies and deception. So the big lie that they're believing is that, oh, children are born this way. Well, no, they're not born that way. It's an environmental, psychological status. It's nothing biological to it. You do have people with adrenal insensitivity syndrome, partial adrenal insensitivity syndrome, very, very rare condition. It's where the baby in the formation only partially shifts from being a female to the male, which is what effectively happens. You have the basic framework of a female and then things change and the male starts to develop. Very unusual. And even then, we know that exactly what the gender is or should be with today's science. So there's nothing really valid to support their point that these massive numbers of, quote, transgenders were born that way. They're not born that way, number one. The second thing is, well, this is who they are. Well, no, who they are today isn't likely not going to be who they are several years from now. I once spoke to a girl who's 13 years old and I attended a PFLAG meeting. It was after I debated parents and friends of gays and lesbians, transgenders. And I attended six of their meetings because I wanted to understand them. And I think it's important to sit and understand and we prevailed against them at a city council meeting on a policy. And I went over. I says, yeah, no, I want to I want to understand you guys. They come to our meeting. I went to their meetings and they were shocked that I saw a 13 year old girl and her parents were there. And she's said that she feels like she's really a boy. And I went with that girl. And of course, they were all watching me because they're very carefully. They don't want me to to hurt their cause. But I told her, I said, I think it's really I want to just salute you for being very open and honest about your feelings. It's so important, especially your time in life, to be open and completely honest and transparent about your feelings. I just want to commend you for that. And I said, in addition, I want you to always take note of the fact I looked at the parents that feelings, especially the feelings you express, are often not going to be the same feelings you have later on. They're often temporary. So it's real important that you that you remember not to make permanent decisions about feelings that are likely not going to be the same in the future. And the parents got it. And the activists around me really couldn't say anything. They couldn't criticize me because everything I said was true, even though they don't want to want to admit it. Very interesting. Yeah, I mean, I've not done a lot of work in the sort of transgender space. I've addressed a few of the different things, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on when you say when there's a compelling state interest to over or to supersede parental rights, is that something that's being used to sort of argue for retaining this space? Yeah. Yeah. In fact, what we have now happening is we have social. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. workers. And this is huge. And people need to listen to this more than anything else on this broadcast, in my opinion, right now. We have social workers across the nation and they're not just taking kids from parents because the corporal punishment is a little too severe, perhaps. No, they're taking children because the children are gender confused or involved in same sex sexual activities. And the parents are Christian parents, wonderful parents, who are saying, no, we're not going to affirm that. We're not going to encourage your confusion. What loving parent would ever want to encourage any confusion, much less such harmful confusion in a child? So the social worker comes, they take the child. We had just one case in Northern California like this. A girl in her early teens, they took the child. They were going to start the hormone therapy. They were going to get custody and guardianship. The state of California was. We were called in. We prevented it from happening. We went into court, halted it. And we took two years of fighting and we got the girl given back to the family. And at the end, the last hearing, the girl says, you know, your honor, actually, I just want you to know, I really don't feel like I'm a boy anymore. Actually, I think I just want to be a girl. And had we not intervened, she would have been permanently sterilized and messed up for life. Courtesy of the state of California and the governor and those who are in the hierarchy and the ruling of the state of California right now. And I just think people need to take note of that. You know, when we look at politicians, we need to say, do we want that in our state? Do we want that over the entire country? But that's what Governor Gavin Newsom is pushing and is now policy in the state of California. Every social service agency has been commanded and ordered to take any child that has any gender confusion where the parents and family is not encouraging it and playing along with it. That is how dangerous states like California become. But New York isn't much better. Oregon and Washington state may be even worse. Illinois is very problematic. So we at Pacific Justice, we've developed something that can help parents out there.

Now, wherever they are, no matter what state, we encourage them to download it. It's an article we have, we wrote called 12 Steps to Protect Your Children from CPS, or Child Protective Services, another name for a social worker. And every family should have it. They should download it. They should print it out. They should read it and have it accessible so when a social worker calls them or knocks on the door, they're not going to have time usually to get help otherwise. This will tell them exactly what they need to do to keep their child from being taken. And the good news is, I would say it has a better than 98% success rate of keeping children that otherwise would be taken by a social worker, protecting children that otherwise would be taken. And the good news is for just $99.99, no, I'm just teasing. This is available without charge. At PGI, we don't sell anything. So there's no hook. There's no angle. There's no airway presentation. There's just go to our website, and it's right there on the resources, PGI.org. We also have opt-out forms. Parents can use it for whatever reason. They still have their children in public schools, which are becoming more like spiritual death camps today. It's very tragic. And I'd say the majority of public schools in this country. We have a, for those who still have kids in public schools, we have a resource called an opt-out form customized for each state based on state laws. That's free download, downloadable as well, as well as a book called Reclaim Your School, How to Legally Evangelize Public Schools. Very empowering as well. Yeah, I actually, and we'll link to all of these things in the show notes, and so we'll make sure that the resources are available to people, easily accessible, because I do think it's important. My wife and I have done a fair amount on foster care, and we're adopting right now. And so we're a little more familiar with some of that. And even some of the information we got in our training was, I found really interesting. It's, you know, one of the things we were presented with was that there's a disproportionate number of transgender kids or LGBTQ kids who are homeless. And so when I'm listening to that and I'm thinking to myself, you know, some of these ideas we're talking about now, some of these legal cases and the compelling interest of the state, it's like that I could see an easy step from saying, look, we've got this epidemic of LGBTQ kids who are homeless. Their parents are kicking them out. This is why we have a compelling state interest to sort of pull this stuff in. And so even within that structure, even if that's correct information, you can kind of see how it would be leveraged into something that could be very pernicious and sort of rob parents of their rights to work through these things with their children and not just leave their children confused and sort of afloat, adrift. Right. You know, right now we're suing the state of Oregon because Oregon effectively says you cannot be a foster parent if you are not willing to encourage same-sex confusion, you know, or gender identity confusion. If you're not willing to encourage that, affirm it, embrace it, along with same-sex sex acts, then you're disqualified. Even from state adoptions to state agencies, disqualified by the state of Oregon completely. Washington is very similar to, we're litigating these very, very aggressively, you know, moving forward. But they're very, it's a serious problem disqualifying Christian families. And by the way, they say these kids were booted out of their home. Actually, what's the real truth is that the overall majority of these kids left home. It's because they don't like the fact their parents are not willing to bow the knee to salute what they're doing or what they want to do to themselves. So that's the actual reason most Christian families, parents have unconditional love for their children. They're not going to compromise in their convictions of what they feel is right for their children, according to truth. And, but that's the reason why kids, most of these kids are homeless. It's not because they're booted out, but that's the line. That's one of the lines of deception that the LGBTQ movement is trying to, trying to utilize to, to, to win their cause, which is really just victimizing more kids. Do you know the state of California and Washington and other states are looking at this? Passed a law saying it's legal to kidnap a child from another state. You're not even related to. So you can kidnap a child state from the state of Texas. It's legal to kidnap them and take them to California and you won't be prosecuted. If the reason you kidnapped that child was to enable that child to have their body cut on and, and have their quote unquote gender changed. That, and then the child won't even be given back to the parents. And they will ignore any judicial order from the state of Texas, which is unconstitutional. That is how extreme and how dangerous. Now just picture this on a national level. If we have people in Congress and in the White House get enough control to, to push this kind of legislation, it would be, there would be no safe place, so to speak to live in the United States where so many, which is the reason why so many people are leaving New York, California, et cetera. You know, I mean, I can think of a number of biblical reasons why this is happening, right? You know, kind of easy to go there. The, the degradation of society, you know, the, the sort of spiraling downward of nations and those kinds of things. Any Any particular sort of legal trajectory that you've seen that would have led us to this place this quickly? Like, it feels like it just sort of popped on in the last, you know, maybe five, six years. Yeah. You know, historically, when you look at law, Blackstone and the great, you know, legal theorists, if you will, they were all premised upon natural law. The laws of nature, nature's God that has proven itself and even would founded and proven itself through, through scriptures and the biblical foundation of American law is, is indisputable. But what happened is we began to become proud of ourselves as a society, I believe, in educational institutions in particular. With that proud became a, pride became a rebellion against God. And, and with that, an attitude and philosophy of, of, you know, critical legal studies, of thinking that, you know, we're, you know, we're free and independent to come up with our own concepts of, of rights and, and, and privileges, et cetera, which is very dangerous because that opens the door for tremendous tyranny, as we've seen manifest in other governments in history that have done that, whether it's Adolf Hitler or Mao Zedong or Joseph Stalin or Pol Pot. But that attitude, which is very dangerous, is permeating the legal profession. Our universities, of course, are just filled with, with those in a very warped way. The most, they're more liberal now than they've ever been. I didn't think they could be more liberal than when I was in school. They're much more liberal, which means children and kids are not getting a balanced education for proper critical thinking. It makes, you know, public universities used to be the foundation for the free open marketplace of ideas. They have now become the most censoring and the most controlling of thought. And the thought has to be one which is basically an open rebellion against God, the laws of nature to create new quote unquote rights, i.e. transgender, same sex, and exterminating and diminishing other rights like the rights of parents, religious freedom, free speech, freedom of thought. Things that before we would just take for granted. That's the fight. And yet, we're very, I'm very optimistic on several grounds. One is our Supreme Court because of the former president appointed three critical justices to that court and many justices on our federal bench across the country, has given us a whole new breathing of support, if you will, to the cases defending religious freedom, parents' rights, sanctity of human life. In addition to that, great case law has already come down on these different categories. We expect more case law affirming the rights of parents as we aggressively take on these cases all across the country without charge. And then we also have a booming of things like school choice, homeschool co-ops. Many parents are taking their kids out of these spiritual death camps of public education and providing real truth and healthy education. And I think that is saving a remnant which can be a bastion of truth and enlightenment for the future generations. So there's some definite hope there. And also, you know, maybe because I'm getting gray, but I'm thinking more and more where Jesus is going to be coming soon. And I think that's, you know, I always thought that was just for older people, but I guess I am one, so that makes sense. So we may see Christ come before the several generations have to deal with this. But that's the good news. We have a large chunk of our society that are of kids who are getting a quality education. But parents have to realize if they have access to the internet, you know, filtering is not enough. Parents need to not let their kid look at their laptop in their room. I encourage them not to let them have a cell phone until they're 18 and on their own. Let them have a flip top, flip phone, you know, use software that lets the parents see what the children are watching, pulling up. Because that is, even if they have the kids in a great Christian homeschool environment, it's now the new...

I believe demonic influence is just taking over and impacting kids that otherwise you would assume would be safe. It's an endless room with any number of windows they can look through, and so you'd have to be really careful with it. Yes. Brad, we're kind of coming up on time. This was amazing. I really appreciate you coming on the show and talking. We'll get links to everything you mentioned in the show notes and make sure people can find you. I think this is really valuable information. You know, we talk a lot about thinking Christian on the show, and thinking Christian about the legal environment is crucial. There's so many times where I've gone back into the sort of annals of legal history and found some real gems as I've been doing research and various different things. And so I think the work you're doing is fantastic, and we definitely need the government to step up and really just keep its, do what it's supposed to be doing and no more, as opposed to really pushing these ideologies and agendas on Christian families and parents. Yeah, well, we still live in a free society where we can still go to the polls, we can still vote. Overall, I think they're pretty, pretty reliable in most cases. So we still have that ability to do that. And in fact, we at Pacific Justice are helping hundreds of churches to have voter registration Sundays to make sure that the church's voice is heard. And as long as we've got that, there's always that opportunity for making major changes in the right direction from the top on down. Very cool. Well, Brad, thanks so much for being here and just really appreciate the work you're doing. And like I said, folks, go link to Brad's website. Check out the show notes. Get these free resources. Download them. They sound really good. I'll be doing the same. So thanks very much, Brad, for the work you're doing. And we will catch everybody on the next episode of Thinking Christian. I just want to take a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more. A powerful prayer life does not require hiking a mountain to be able to hear from God. God can meet us right in the middle of our busy lives to help, guide, and speak to us through prayer. I'm Christina Patterson, host of the Teach Us to Pray podcast, providing practical teaching and encouragement on how you can make prayer a natural and consistent part of your everyday life. I promise it won't require hiking a mountain, but you just might develop the faith to move one. Listen and subscribe at lifeaudio.com.