Debbie D'Souza | The Dragon’s Prophecy Film

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, onto today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey, everyone, and welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I'm Dr. James Spencer, and I'm joined today by Debbie DeSouza. And Debbie has been a co-writer and co-director of a new movie that's coming out. It's going to be sort of limited release, and it's called The Dragon's Prophecy. And so we're going to be talking about the film, talking about where you can get tickets, all those kind of fun things today on the show. So, Debbie, welcome. Thanks for being here on the show. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I love being here. Yeah, so, you know, this is a pretty timely movie. I mean, you're dealing with some pretty, you know, present day events. And so maybe frame out the movie for folks. What should they be expecting as they sort of enter into this? What angle are you coming from as you're addressing this sort of Israel, Palestine today and yesterday sort of feel to it? Well, as you say, I mean, it's got so many angles. And to be quite honest with you, you know, I joke with Dinesh about who the writer, director, producer is of this film, because really it should be God. It was literally God-led. We actually were going to do a movie about January 6th, you know, back in 2022. That was the project was going to be January 6th. And, you know, and so we, you know, it takes us a little bit to kind of get going on these projects. And after October 7th, we just kind of had a, you know, just this like feeling that, you know what? This doesn't feel right. I don't think, I think we need to go this direction, right? And so, so, you know, October 7th happened and I was actually a part of a group on Telegram that was getting all of the images and all of the videos that Hamas was posting of their atrocities. I saw all of it. I mean, it was, it was horrific. Every single, every single video that they posted, all of the GoPro cameras that they had, the iPhones, the live streams. I don't know if you've seen it. Have you seen this? I have not. No. Oh my gosh. So it was, I couldn't sleep. It was just really, really aching at my heart. I really prayed about it. And I said, Dinesh, we have to tell the world what has happened to Israel. We have to let people know that this is, this is bad. This is not something that is, you know, many, many for many years, they've kind of been, been at each other's throats. You know, they, they fire a rocket here, a rocket there. I said, this is, this is not the typical thing. This is, this is going to cause a major war. So I knew that in my soul. And so Dinesh and I were, were like thinking, well, what, you know, what can we do that has to do with October 7th? So we prayed about it and we didn't really do anything for a while. And then we, so Dinesh has a podcast and I'm the producer of the podcast. And so, so we had Jonathan Cahn. He is, he's actually a Messianic Jew that has a church in New Jersey. And he's, he's had many bestselling books. One of them was, oh my gosh, well, The Dragon's Prophecy is, is his book actually. Right, right. And he's had others. So a bestselling author, the whole works. And he loves to do prophetic books. Like he likes to talk about Bible prophecy and all of that. So we had him on the podcast and he talked about the dragon and, and what the, the meaning of the dragon is. And if, if some of your viewers and listeners aren't familiar with it, the dragon is actually a prophecy in Revelation. It's Revelation 12. It's about the dragon, which, which represents Satan. And he wants to devour a woman who's about to give birth. So the woman could be said to be Mary. The birth could be Jesus, but it could also mean Israel is the woman. And the birth is just the, the new birth of Israel. So there could be many interpretations depending on, you know, how you want to go, but, but that was basically the premise of the book. And he said that the ancient enemies, well, the ancient Israelites are back in the land. As, as you know, that, that is prophesied in the Bible. They all come back 1948. All of the Jews from all over the world come back to Israel. So that was the prophecy that came true. But the other one, he said, is the ancient enemies of Israel are also coming back. And, and he makes a really pretty compelling case about the Philistines being in a Philistia, which is Palestine today. Right. And there was also Gaza, even back then. Now the people are not genetically linked to the Palestinians because these people were sea peoples. They were, they were from the Mediterranean, Greece, Sardinia. You know, they were not Arab. Right. Whereas the Palestinians are Arab. So, so the people aren't the same lineage of people, but they're the same enemies of Israel. And so, so the Bible is very clear that Israel is going to have enemies until the end of time, as we know that. Right. So, so we love that angle. So here we have October 7th and then we have the Bible prophecy angle. But then Dinesh is like, well, you know what? That's great. But what if people don't buy that the Bible is real? What if they think, you know what? That's great. That's another fairy tale you're telling us. You know, give me a break. You know, why should we believe that? You know? So then when we went to Israel for the first time in 2022, we went December of 22. Okay. We were privileged enough to see the pilgrimage road, which is in, in the city of David. They, they have excavated the pilgrimage road, which was the main road that the Jews used to go to the temple Mount. And it's not been discovered. It was actually discovered quite by accident. It was some kind of a pipe broke and in Israel, everything that happens, well, you know what I mean? They have to dig and they find the antiquities authority and they dig in there and they see what they can find. And they found the pilgrimage road and they found the pool of Shalom, which was the pool that, that all of the Jews bathed in before going up the road to, to the temple Mount. So that was such an amazing discovery that Dinesh and I just fell in love with the archeology. And then, you know, Dinesh started digging further as he always does, you know, and he's like, Hey, what about this? What about, what about the tell Dan? What about this? What about that? So, so we go in the movie to a lot of these archeological places, sites. And, and we say, you know, this is actually proving the very existence of the Bible, the historicity of the Bible. So if you're not convinced by faith alone, The knowledge of knowing that all of these people were real. King David was real. Jeremiah was real. Hezekiah was real. All these people were real people. Perhaps this can convince you. And then the other thing that, that we, you know, decided on, on doing is saying, okay, whose land is this? Why is this small piece of property the size of New Jersey? Why is it the most debated piece of property on earth? Why, right? Again, that is very prophetic, but, but basically we, we found out that the Israelites, the Jews were the, they were the first inhabitants of this. They were the original inhabitants of Israel dating back 4,000 years ago. And so people go, okay, that's great. What about the native Americans? Are you saying that because the native Americans, you know, were the first inhabitants, does that mean that we need to give the land America back to the native Americans? And we say, well, you know, to be honest, Israel is the only country in the world that has all three categories. It has original inhabitants. It has a treaty in 1948, and it also has conquest. It has won all its wars. So again, that is, you know, you cannot argue one of those things. Maybe you can argue, but all three of them, you really can't to say that that is indeed their land. So we wanted to, we wanted to put all of this in the movie.

And, you know, at the end, in the end, we want to leave you with an inspiration. That's why Dinesh and I have always wanted to be baptized on the Jordan River. And we got to do it. And they're like, Hey, can we film you doing it? And we were a little hesitant about doing that because we thought it was a very private moment. But we did want, we wanted to share it with the world because we want people to, to be taken away after seeing this movie to know that there is hope and, and there's hope in him. And, and no matter what happens, there's a lot of evil in the world, good versus evil. We know in the end, who's going to win. So that was really the reason. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. Well, I would say for folks who haven't been to Israel, your movie is a very helpful introduction to a lot of what goes on there. And it's a compelling place, not simply because of its linkage to the Bible, but it's actually a really compelling political environment as well. The last time I went to Israel, we had one of the guys, so I was teaching on a tour. I was handling the Bible stuff. And then we had a guide, an Israeli guide, who was handling a lot of the geopolitical sort of maneuverings over there. And it was fascinating. It was fascinating to understand the dynamics of their life. You know, we'd see armed guards with kids, you know, in buses and those kind of things. We actually watched. This was when I went on my very first time. I watched the purse get blown up by the Israeli authorities in front of a hospital just in case it had, you know, something in it. So I think somebody's tuna sandwich got blown up. But it was it was a fascinating place from these multiple perspectives. And I think the movie really does justice to its significance in all of these different realms that you're talking about. I thought it was a really well done piece. And I wondered about the B-roll with you, you know, with Dinesh over in Israel and walking around. I'm like, surely that wasn't filmed in the last six months, right? It was filmed. Was it really? So what happened was, and this again, this is why I said this movie was produced and directed by God. Because we went to Israel. Well, we wanted to go to Israel a year ago in May. Okay, they canceled all our flights. We couldn't get there. Right. So we're like, oh, how are we going to do this? We need to go to Israel. So we prayed about it and prayed about it. Finally, this last April, we were able to get flights and we were able to go for Easter. Can you imagine going Easter Sunday? Wow. Yeah, that's crazy. Spectacular, right? I love being there on Easter. But, but anyway, so I, Dinesh and I were like, we're not going to Gaza, are we? Dinesh is like, no, of course we're not going to Gaza. And we're like, okay, good, because they're having, you know, they're, they're having explosions and all this. Yeah. Anyway, so we, we get there and, and we, we hired a crew from Israel to, to do all the camera work and everything. We, we have a, we're a very small film team. There's only like four of us. And so there's the director and then, you know, the producers and, and ourselves, right? So, so we go and, and so we see that there's a, a schedule for every day that we're there. We're there nine days. And one of the days says Gaza. And I'm like, you're kidding, right? I'm like, we're not really going, are we? And they're like, Oh yeah, we're going. We're going to Gaza. I was like, Oh my gosh. But they, you know, they're having explosions. How are you, are we going to be safe? They're like, they're like, yeah, yeah, it'll be okay. It'll be okay. So, so we go, but, but this is where it gets really, like, I know God was all over this. The Holy Spirit was all over it because one of the videos that I had in my mind, just playing over and over again, was a video of this young boy that was forced to go and this was live streamed by Hamas. Okay. He was forced to go from one house, his house to a neighbor's house to let, to basically open the door for Hamas terrorists to go inside their, their kibbutz, their house. And I had this video. So as we're going into this kibbutz, I, I look around and I go, this looks really familiar. And when the woman comes out, this is the, a survivor. Her husband was taken hostage. Um, she has two small children, two little girls, and her husband was taken. She comes out to greet us. And my heart like stops. I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is the woman I have in the video. And she's talking about the boy that I have in the video. And so we were able to show this was not a recreation. This was the actual video of the real thing happening in real time. And so that again, that couldn't have been, that wasn't orchestrated by us. It was just the Holy Spirit, you know, He's like, this is what, this is what you have to do. This is the story you have to tell. Right? So, so that was, that was part of it. And so, yes, when Dinesh is walking, he's walking in that field. I don't know if you've seen videos of the, of the young, you know, the young people that were at that Nova festival. Yeah. They're running in the field. They're like their cars and they're running and all of that. Well, that field is right across from Gaza. So the Nova festival was held very close to Gaza. And we went to the Nova festival as well because Dinesh talked to a woman whose boyfriend was killed in front of her. I mean, this was very horrific as you, as you saw. Yeah. So, so we were at the Nova festival, you know, at, in the site, right? They had a memorial for all these kids that were killed. And then Dinesh walked in the field and what the other producer was freaking out. She was like, oh my gosh, what if there's some kind of a landmine or something, Dinesh? You know, you can't do that. And Dinesh is just walking along. And as he's doing that, you can hear the explosions going off in the background. And I had weirdly a peace about it. I mean, I really did. God put that peace that surpasses all understanding because I tell you, I would have been a basket case, you know, seeing my husband running in that field, you know, with, with Gaza's background, you know, but it was, it was really extraordinary and it was something that we, that we had to do. We just had to film that because so many people do not understand this war and they don't understand Netanyahu's stance. And, and they just don't see the moral equivalents. And, you know, I, I always liken it to, let's just say a group of home invaders come into your house and they kill and rape your wife and your daughters and they kill your dog. And you are left, you know, to pick up the pieces. But you know, with all your, all the, the energy that you have, you grab your gun, you go outside to get back at this person. And he's in his car and he takes out his children and he puts them in front of him so that you have to kill his children. This is Hamas. So this is why I, I get a little teary-eyed when I talk about this because so many people do not get it. They just don't get it. They don't understand it. And, you know, imagine being a state and they have to constantly be on the defensive. They have to be because they are wanted. They are hunted daily. And they have to defend themselves. And again, America and Israel are spiritually aligned because this is our spiritual homeland. So many people, you know, America first, America first, you know, Israel is our spiritual homeland. If you are a Bible believing Christian, you know this to be the case. And so, you know, I think this is another aspect of the film that I hope is clear.

I hope we make the case for. When you think about the misperceptions, let's say, that people have about the war and those kind of things, there's obviously an ideological component to it, and I think that's absolutely true. Do you also think that we're just seeing so much more of it now than we ever have before? Like, there's so much more accessible to us, and so we're getting to see, like you mentioned, you know, being on those streams where you actually saw some of the videos that were coming out early. Like these images, the lens we're getting to see things through almost has to be skewing people's perspective about what's happening over there. And I'm wondering if you, my theory, and you've been there, you've done this whole film, and so I'm kind of picking your brain a little bit, but my theory is we sort of think that it's the same over there as it is over here. And so when we're seeing these images, we're going, well, we would never do that. But it's partly because their context is just so much, it's vastly different than ours. Is that a, you know, realistic reading of that situation? What are your thoughts there? Well, I think what you mean is that they are kind of on the front lines of fighting terrorism like we've never seen. That's right. The closest we came to that was 9-11, right? Yeah. Because we saw what the evil radical Islamist terrorists did to our country on 9-11, right? It happened here. Yeah. Exactly. It happened here. Yeah. Yes, you're right. In Israel, it's their reality on a daily basis, on a daily basis. So you're right. We don't get it. We don't understand it because we do think it's just, come on, guys, it's just a war. You know, so they fought. They killed a few people over here. You should just kill a few people over there. But what they're missing is that these terrorists are never going to stop. They're never going to stop trying to wipe Israel off the map. And so Israel has every right to defend itself against these terrorists, just as we would. Let's say that Mexico, let's say the cartels were like Hamas, right? And they were coming through the border and they were doing these very things that Hamas did to Israel. How would we react? I mean, what would we do to Mexico, to the cartels, right? So, you know, we don't see it because it's not a reality for us, as you say. It's something that we really have never experienced firsthand the way they have. And I think we actually have forgotten 9-11. I really do. Yeah. It's really I just wrote like a commemorative piece on 9-11. And so I would have been I'm a Gen Xer, so I'm in my late 40s and I would have been in my 20s when it happened somewhere in there. And I can remember where I was when it happened and all that kind of stuff. Kind of like people who saw JFK get assassinated remember that. But I don't. Right. And I think we sort of are generationaling it out, that atrocity. And, you know, you go to New York, you can see the big memorial, but you don't you sort of lose the tragedy of it. And I will say I can almost guarantee it was different for people who are in New York experiencing that than I was in Chicago. And even the folks in Chicago, though, I can remember how deeply unsettling people felt because they weren't sure if this was it. And I think that that like for those of us who have been there, right, you kind of remember that that unsettled feeling of, oh, man, what if it's not done? Like we live in a big city. It's, you know, you know, it's it could be a target. What if this isn't done? What if that wasn't the only thing? And so now you're sort of walking around. You have this this unrest about you. And, you know, while you got used to it, I would be lying if I said, you know, you don't it doesn't go through your mind like it sort of drills in there. It's ingrained in in sort of what you think and how you operate in the world. And having been over in Israel and seen some of the things that I got to see on those study trips, I would just say, like, they live a very different existence than we do in a lot of ways. It's I mean, I can't think of anything but a comparatively trivial example. Like when we were living in Chicago, we started we were trying to sell our house and we kept getting graffiti all over the place. And so every morning I'd wake up and I'd be like, what would be on my mind? Graffiti. I wonder if somebody graffiti the house and, you know, get to the point where I'd try to stay up later and later and kind of watch and see if I, you know, never did. Right. But it was just that it's this constant annoyance. It never goes away. And like I said, that's a comparatively trivial example. But I think that's what they live with over there all the time. I think you're right. I mean, it is. It's like having PTSD on a constant basis. Every day. Because, you know, even when we were there, we this last time that we were just there a couple of weeks ago, we went to see the unveiling of the pilgrimage road, which we are. We're donors of the pilgrimage road. And so we got to go see it. And while we were there, we were eating at a restaurant. They had a drill. I mean, you know, sirens. And we had to go in the basement. That was the first time that we ever had to do that when we were in Israel. We had been. That was our third time to go. And it was extreme. But then I noticed that they're all like, oh, yeah, this is, you know, fighting terrorism like we've never seen. That's right. That's right. The closest we came to that was 9-11, right? Yeah. Because we saw what the evil radical Islamist terrorists did to our country on 9-11, right? That's right. That's right. The closest we came to that was 9-11, right? Yeah. Because we saw what the evil radical Islamist terrorists did to our country on 9-11, right? That's right. That's right. The closest we came to that was 9-11, right? Yeah. Because we saw what the evil radical Islamist terrorists did to our country on 9-11, right? That's right. That's right. That's the closest we came to that was 9-11, right? Yeah. Because we saw what the evil radical Islamist terrorists did to our country on 9-11, right? That's right. That's right. In Israel, it's their reality on a daily basis. On a daily basis. So you're right. We don't get it. We don't understand it. Yeah. Because we do think it's just, come on, guys. It's just a war. You know, so they fought. They killed a few people over here. You should just kill a few people over there. But what they're missing is that these terrorists are never going to stop. They're never going to stop trying to wipe Israel off the map. And so Israel has every right to defend itself against these terrorists, just as we would. Let's say that Mexico, let's say the cartels were like Hamas, right? And they were coming through the border. And they were doing these very things that Hamas did to Israel. How would we react? I mean, what would we do to Mexico, to the cartels, right? So, you know, we don't see it because it's not a reality for us, as you say. It's something that we really have never experienced firsthand the way they have. And I think we actually have forgotten 9-11. I really do. Yeah. It's really, I just wrote like a commemorative piece on 9-11. And so I would have been, I'm a Gen Xer, so I'm in my late 40s. And I would have been in my 20s when it happened, somewhere in there. And I can remember where I was when it happened and all that kind of stuff. Kind of like people who saw JFK get assassinated remember that. But I don't. And I think we sort of are generationaling it out, that atrocity. And, you know, you go to New York, you can see the big memorial. But you don't, you sort of lose the tragedy of it. And I will say, I can almost guarantee it was different for people who were in New York experiencing that than I was in Chicago. And even the folks in Chicago, though, I can remember how deeply unsettling people felt because they weren't sure if this was it. And I think that that, like, for those of us who have been there, right, you kind of remember that. That unsettled feeling of, oh, man, what if it's not done? Like, we live in a big city. It's, you know, it could be a target. What if this isn't done? What if that wasn't the only thing? And so now you're sort of walking around and you have this unrest about you. And, you know, while you got used to it, I would be lying if I said, you know, you don't, it doesn't go through your mind. Like, it sort of drills in there. It's ingrained in sort of what you think and how you operate in the world. And I hadn't been over in Israel and seen some of the things that I got to see on those study trips. I would just say, like, they live a very different existence than we do in

Spiritually, we are of Israel. I mean, spiritually. So the reason that I think that it's important to support Israel and the land itself and all of that is because I'm not really sure that in the end times we will actually be around to, you know what I mean? I don't know. There is nothing in the Bible that tells me that we will be. But there is something in the Bible that tells me that supporting Jerusalem, supporting Israel is what I'm supposed to do. That is a commandment from God. Not only will he bless us, and there's other scriptures, not just Genesis, that says those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. There is a lot of other passages in the Bible that say that Israel and the Jews are God's chosen people. And regardless of their behavior, because as you know, I mean, they misbehaved a lot, right? God, it is because of God, not because of them, that they will be there and that that land is for them. It is a promise that God gave to Abraham, right? So I think that spiritually, I support Israel because I know that every time I read the Bible and when I went to Israel and the Bible came to life, seeing all the things that I read about, you know, actually seeing for myself, there is just no doubt in my mind that that is what we're supposed to do as Christians. How important do you think is it? So I've had conversations with folks who I think bring up interesting points about, you know, the things the Israeli government does. Obviously, it's a government like any other government. It's going to do some things well. It's going to do some things poorly. It's going to do some things, you know, in this big gray area in the middle, right? How important do you think is it as we're talking about Israel and talking about supporting Israel and recognizing Israel as the, you know, God's people who have come through the ages, all the good things they brought through us, the Messiah, as is mentioned in the film, came from Israel. Like, how important is it for us to nuance some of those things as opposed to aping into the sort of polarization of either pro-Israel or anti-Israel? You know what I'm saying? Like, how important do you see the details being in this to really have a thick understanding and a realistic understanding that also suggests that the Jews need Jesus and that, you know, we're not supporting everything they do. What we're doing is we're saying, these are still God's people and they deserve our respect. Right, right. Well, I mean, are you talking about like the government, like supporting Netanyahu? Yeah, let's say that. Yeah. Right. So this is my take on it. OK, this is not talking about the Bible or anything like that. So my take on it is that Netanyahu and his government is taking on radical Islam like no other country. Because they are taking them on on the front line. Right. And so I support what they do because they are fighting a very dangerous ideology, a very dangerous religion when they become, you know, radicalized that can be very dangerous for the Western Hemisphere. I'm from Venezuela. That's where I was born. OK. And I know that Venezuela has become a haven for Iran. Right. So Iran actually was trying to get missiles in Venezuela and use their enriched uranium and all of this stuff. So I know that they're seeping into the West little by little doing it. And Israel is stopping them. I mean, look what Israel did to Iran. Thanks to Israel. You know, we obviously we helped, but it was their intelligence that helped do that. So so I think that the Israeli intelligence, the Israeli government, Mossad, whatever, you know, wherever you want to call it. Right. Right. They have incredible intelligence that is very useful to us. So we really do need to be allies with these people because they can help us. And radical Islam is going all over. I mean, they are spreading on the West faster than you can say hello. You know, look at look at the UK. Look at Finland. Look at all these places that are being infiltrated. Right. And if Israel can help with intelligence, if they can help stop the you know, the tip of the spear, why not help them? You know, the amount of money that we give to Israel is minimal compared to all the other countries we give money to who are actually our enemies and want us dead. Right. Yeah. You think about it. If there was one country that deserves our money, it's Israel. And I mean, I'm going to be bold and say that. But again, they're fighting Islamic radicalism like no one else. And I feel like if you're against that, then by default, you're kind of pro-Islamic radicalism. I mean, I don't know how else to put it. So, yeah, I mean, that's that's my feelings anyway. It is interesting. I heard a gentleman talking about this. I think he was the former prime minister of Israel on a on a podcast the other day. And he said, you know, we we have such good intelligence because we're in friction with these folks. Like we're dealing with them every day. We understand what they're doing because we feel what they're doing. And I thought that was a really good take on on that sort of aspect. And we all know governments can do some some off color things. Right. But at the end of the day, it is the only democracy, really, I think, in the Middle East. I think I think I'm right about that. And so it's just one of those things where you kind of sit back and you're like, well, it does sort of make some sense. But I think there is a lot of confusion about it right now. And I think there's a I think this film will do a really I think it'll give people a different take on what's going on over there. And I really appreciated the way you I mean, it's amazing. You were able to go on site and see some of these things. And yeah, that was that was all just, you know, it was it was God because I'm telling you, it was it was just one of those things. We had no idea we were going to do these things until we were here, you know. Yeah, yeah. And then the other thing was was the music for for the for the film. You know, we have, you know, you have a score. Sure. Yeah. And there is a gentleman by the name of Richard Friedman, who we had been talking to several years ago. And I, I hadn't really we had lost touch. We had lost contact. And one day I was sitting up at a stoplight and this is when we were trying to, you know, get the put the movie together and we were trying to figure out who was going to do the music and all of that. And I sing in the music in the movie, by the way. I sing a very short piece called He Is Here. It's in the movie itself, but it's in the kind of in the middle section. And but anyway, so so I was thinking, well, who could all of a sudden his name came to my head just out of the blue. Right. Richard Freeman. OK, well, let me ask him, you know, if he's interested. So when we did, he was like, oh, my gosh, I so want to do this movie. You know, he saw it. He's like, this is this is the movie that I want to do. I love it. Whatever, whatever. And wouldn't you know it? He has a heart attack while he's working on the movie. And, you know, we're just praying that that he can get through it. It was just the saddest thing because I was like, God, why would you put him in my heart? And then this. Yeah. Long story short, he was able to finish the movie and then he passed away. And I couldn't I couldn't bring myself to like, why on earth did this happen? And then I thought, well, God wanted this to be his last project. Wanted him to work on this movie as his last project. And so, you know, God always has a plan. We never we never know what his plan is, but everything just falls into place the way it's supposed to. And, you know, sadly, this this happened to him, but we got some really incredible music and and his and his work will live on. And so that happened. And then again, you know, the the footage that I had. Yeah. Little things here and there that had just been like just it's just God. There's no other explanation. Sure. Even the storyline itself. It's like, how are we going to do October 7th and end it with a baptism? You know what I mean? It's like, how do you do that? How do you put that into a movie? And so it's God led God directed God produced God written. So here you go. Well, we're getting toward the end of time. So why don't we talk a little bit about where people can see it, when people can see it? Like, let's give the details so that they don't miss out on it. Yeah. So Monday, October the 6th.

And Wednesday, October the 8th, we're going to have a 7 p.m. showing at, it may not be on everywhere, but if you go to the website and that's thedragonsprophecyfilm.com, you can put in your zip code and it will pull up like a theater near you, basically. We bought out these theaters, so you cannot go to the theater and buy tickets. You can't go to Fandango, you can't go to amc.com or anything like that. You have to go to thedragonsprophecyfilm.com and get your tickets there. And then after the two showings, but we really think you'll really like it in the theater because it's just, it's such a magnificent movie. I think it's one of our best. You really need to see it on the big screen, but if you can't, on the night, you will be able to stream it on SalemNow.com and also on Rumble.com. And then a few others after that, but we'll have all that up on the website, so just visit the website and buy your tickets or buy the streaming. You can also buy DVDs. We will soon be having some church screenings as well, and that's going to be run through a company that will take care of all that. But we want as many people to see this movie as possible because, like you say, there's a lot of misinformation out there. There's a lot of animosity. There's unfortunately a lot of anti-Semitism that's making its way into our society, which is really sad. And we just kind of want to, we want to be there to kind of shed some light into it and help it, help stop it. Well, I think it's great. I enjoyed watching the movie. I thought the discussions of the biblical prophecies, which I know we didn't get a ton into, but that's why you made the movie, so people can go and watch it and get into it. So, yeah, I'd actually just finished teaching through Revelation probably four or five weeks ago now, so a lot of those things were fresh in my mind. But no, this is great. I really appreciate you being here and talking and just putting your life and your energy into this project. I think it's a fantastic work and I'm looking forward to seeing it either in the theaters or on the streaming service. I already got to watch it, of course, but I watched part of it on my phone and you're right, it's not the same experience. I watched the rest of it on my big computer, so at least I got a little bigger screen. Yeah, that's a little better, but it's still better to see it in a theater. I agree, the bigger the better. But thank you so much for being here. And for everybody, don't worry about memorizing the website and all that kind of stuff. It's in the show description, so all you have to do is go down there, link to it. I just encourage you to go and grab some tickets off the website, see if there's a theater near you, go and watch the movie. I think it'll be worth your time. I enjoyed it, and so I really encourage you to go out and check it out. Like I said, we'll put the website in the show notes, so just click there and you can buy your tickets right on the website. So Debbie, thanks again for being here. I really appreciate you. Thank you for having me. You're very welcome. All right, everybody, we'll call it an episode there and we'll catch you next time on Thinking Christian. Take care, everybody. I just want to take a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more. I'm Marc Vinet, host of the Historical Jesus Podcast, which presents the new series, Miracles, focusing on biblical miracles from the Old and New Testament. Join me on the Historical Jesus Podcast as I explore the interesting, compelling, intriguing, and wonderful miracle stories of the Bible and the many great miraculous events inspired by the words and deeds of Jesus Christ.