Thinking Christian about Loving Our Neighbor in a Digital World

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, Thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I'm joined today by Nate, and we're going to have a conversation about Carl Bernstein's article, which he wrote in 1992, called The Idiot Culture. And just to sort of set the stage for 1992, Nate and I were kind of looking around at some fun facts, and here are a couple. So number one, Barry Bonds, in February of 1992, signed the largest single-year contract for any major league baseball player at $4.7 million. Now, I would love to sign a one-year contract for $4.7 million, but man, that is low compared to what we see nowadays. Yeah, guys in the locker room working for the team probably makes close to that now. No, I'm just kidding, but it has changed a ton, man. The 90s was such a different era to now. Well, and we also decided we'd look at the internet. And so in 1992, Sprint offered the first dial-up internet access. Now, for all of you who are well younger than Nate and I, dial-up access is how we got on the internet before there was, you know, Ethernet and all of these other fun things with like high speed. I mean, we used to get those, I remember the CDs, man. AOL CDs, you pop them in there, you get your, you know, you hear all that wonderful beeping and fuzzing noise as you got online. Well, if you wanted to message your friend after school on the internet, sometimes it took 20 minutes just to connect. And you had to, like all the noises. My kids will never understand, like they complain if the internet is like not moving fast enough. I'm like, man, you guys should have, should have been there when I was your age. And then I sound like my dad and I'm like, oh, here we go. Now I sound like my father, but it is what it is. It's so true. Like, we didn't have that expectation back then of stuff being so instant and so quick. It's much, much simpler, but 4.7, I would imagine like second, third string guys on a football team probably make that or more now. That's just, it's crazy how much that's changed. Interesting facts for sure. The other thing I looked at was when did the news go 24-7? You know, there's, there's this interesting sort of phenomenon that happens when the news decides to go to be on all the time. I mean, when I was probably when you were growing up as a kid too, right? You could catch the news at like five or six, and that was pretty much it, right? Otherwise you had the newspaper. It would come out, you know, depending on what kind of newspaper it was, once a week, once a day, whatever. You weren't getting this endless stream of news. Like you kind of had to wait for it more periodically. And so I looked it up in 1980, actually, Ted Turner started the 24-hour cable news program like CNN. Right. And so that happened in 1980. So we've been with that for a little over a decade by 1992. And this is some of the stuff that Carl Bernstein is reacting to in his, in his article, The Idiot Culture. Now, Carl Bernstein, for those of you don't know, is the Bernstein of Woodward and Bernstein. This is the dude that did Watergate and broke the Watergate scandal. So a for real journalist. And he's writing this piece. You can actually find it online. We'll link to it in the show description, but it's called The Idiot Culture. And his concern is what's happened to journalism post-Watergate. And so I just want to start out by reading this, this short piece, because I think it, it really summarizes what he's arguing in the, in the piece. And I think it'll give you a good idea of what we're, what we're going to be talking about as we go forward. So he says, he says this, the greatest felony in the news business today is to be behind or to miss a major story. Or more precisely, to seem behind or to seem in danger of missing a major story. So speed and quantity substitute for thoroughness and quality for accuracy and context. The pressure to compete, the fear that somebody else will make the splash first creates a frenzied environment in which a blizzard of information is presented and serious questions may not be raised. And even in those fortunate instances in which such questions are raised, no one has done the weeks and months of work to sort it all out and to answer them properly. 1992, wow. Dial-up modems just began to be a thing. We're like sort of eons away from that when he wrote this. And the reality is we're getting streams of information that he could never have really even imagined, probably. Oh, man. Yeah, it's probably a whole different landscape. And what I thought was interesting was he said that there was 3,000 journalists in D.C. at the time. And of those 3,000, they selected 12. And then of those 12, it got narrowed down again to six to cover that Watergate thing full time. And it's like, there's no kind of structure like that at all now. I mean, I could be a journalist if I wanted to be. I don't even have to, you know what I mean? Like, I could just create my own thing and then how many people do we see doing that? So it's so different in the way that we are bombarded. And I think it's 100% true. He was kind of like seeing into the future because even more now, it doesn't matter if you're right. It doesn't matter if it's fact. It matters if you're first. Yeah. And he talks about this. He says, you know, reporting is supposed to be the best obtainable version of the truth. And what I think he's lamenting is that reporting is no longer necessarily the best obtainable version of the truth. It is now just the first set of truths that could be reported. So you and I actually got onto this topic. You were talking a little bit about some FEMA stuff that's been going on. And, you know, without necessarily coming down on one side or the other of all this different FEMA information, we could call it. I mean, I got on last night after you mentioned it, and it's crazy. Oh, man. Like you couldn't sort through it. I mean, I could have taken the entire night and not been able to understand what's going on with FEMA exactly. Yeah, totally. You know, you can find what's on their website. You can kind of read what they're saying is going on. But then you've got all these other reports that are out there. And it just seems to me that, you know, a lot of it reads like misinformation. Right? Right. You know, there are these, you know, broad conspiracy theories behind all of these kind of things or they're really slanted to encourage one to think good or ill about a particular political, you know, party or candidate. Oh, yeah. They're all backed with that agenda. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, I mean, you can ignore some of them, but it's really difficult to sort through, like, what the heck is going on here. Mm hmm. It makes it so hard to decipher what is true because I literally, I was like I was telling you yesterday, I have looked stuff up because I'll see something and then I'll see something like within 10 minutes and it's a total contradiction of what this is saying. And it's like, so how do I even like reason between those two? Like you just, it's so confusing and it's hard to find something that's solid, especially when there's just constant contradiction. So, yeah, that's, that's been an interesting one. And then, you know, you throw Diddy into the mix and we're all just distracted with so many different things that are happening. The media is just constant bombardment. Yeah. And I, I would say, and this is something that, that Bernstein discusses, touches on a little bit in the idiot culture. He talks about journalism as popular culture. And so I think his point there is that, yes, the news media is to inform and challenge readers, viewers, readers and viewers, but the viewers and readers have sort of a reciprocal relationship with what they're reading and viewing. And in other words, we're the ones who are consuming it. We're not demanding the best version of the truth. We are accepting what's given to us as relevant. And so I think there's a sense in which we've got to get our heads around. Why is it that we're even, no, not why, how is it that we should be concerned about some of these stories that are coming out? So just as a, for instance, like I said, I don't know anybody who's been to a ditty party. There's a limited range of actions then that I can take in response to those, that whole story. I have no real connection to it, not even a close one. Yeah, so it could be totally make-believe and you would never know because you don't have any reference. And even if I wanted to do something, I'm not sure I understand what I would do. Like I can't reach out to anyone who's been involved. I don't, I wouldn't even know where to start.

heart. And so there's a sense, obviously, as Christians, we can always pray for the people. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up, and many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free Retirement Defense Guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. People are involved, and I think that's an appropriate response. But beyond that, what, like, I've got stuff to do. Like, I've got people in my life who actually need my attention. You know, like, there's a, there's a local setting that I need to be involved with here. And, and there's a sense in which we don't want to minimize what happened to the people in this story, but there's also a very real sense in which they're well further away from me than arm's length. Like, I can't counsel someone who went. I can't, you know, I can't reach out and comfort them. I have no relation with them whatsoever. And so while I care, we shouldn't allow the distance to make us callous. It does limit our capacity to love our neighbor. It limits the range of options that we actually have in a very real way. Totally. And, and I think that, you know, that's different depending on now, like, we could look at, let's say, the hurricane victims. There are ministries and mechanisms that we could actually reach out to those people in a way that's more tangible, perhaps, than just offering prayer. It's not that prayer is trivial, but it, you know, we can pray without actually knowing anyone. But when we're looking at the hurricane victims, we could donate resources, right? And there's mechanisms for us to do that. We could, uh, take a, take a trip and help those, you know, in, in relief zones. Um, I've had people from my church, um, when I was a kid, go down and help people with various hurricanes or various natural disasters. And they go and they take a short-term mission trip and they'd help rebuild things or clean up or what have you. Yeah. Those are, you know, there, there are those things that there are mechanisms and conduits for us to actually do that. And so you've almost got this interesting spectrum of, of arenas where we could sit back and say everything from, you know, the upcoming presidential election, which there are clear ways for everyone to participate to the hurricane, which some people are going to be able to participate in certain ways and not in others. And, you know, those kinds of, there's a little bit more variation. And then something like the, the Diddy story that's out there right now, which the people who are connected to that story could be doing things. But for most of us, it's just sort of a, it's sizzle. It's entertainment. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's interesting. Um, but there's not a lot we could do. Totally. Do you think there's something to, yeah, do you think there's something to say about human nature? Like, why aren't we more addicted to, because I know I'm seeing the Diddy stuff more than I'm seeing coverage of the hurricane. And it's like, we're addicted to scandal, addicted to like stuff. It's like, Ooh, what's going to happen next? Who's going to go down with him? You know, you see these headlines and you get like kind of sucked into it and tied into it. I mean, I don't know if you've seen like how much more documentaries and like scandal kind of documentaries, even on different things in the church, like Hillsong. And there's so many, Uh, documentaries that have come out in the last few years about that. It's almost like the culture shift as focused more on that. And it's like blurring to me, entertainment and reality. It's like, we should be addicted to seeing how we could be a part of what's happening in North Carolina. But instead we're worrying if, you know, Snoop Dogg's going to go down with Diddy or, or, you know, whatever, you know, like all this different stuff that you get bombarded with. So sorry, different perspective, but no, I don't think it, I mean, I agree with you. I think there's, there's a book and I, I referenced it on the podcast before. I won't say the title. Um, it's on BS, right? Only they don't use the abbreviation. So we're a Christian podcast, so I'll stay away from offending people by actually saying the word, but it's written by a guy who's a legit philosopher and he's trying to sort of understand the difference between BS, lying and truth, right? Truth telling. And part of what he says is, um, Is that BS doesn't have to be false, but it can be phony. It can be sort of counterfeit information. So if we thought about like a counterfeit dollar, right. And let's say it's a perfect replica of a U S dollar, just perfect. You couldn't tell the difference, right? Nobody could just perfect. It's still counterfeit. Totally. It's still absolutely counterfeit. And so it doesn't have to be false for it to fall into the category of BS. And the other thing he talks about is that, you know, lying and truth tend to be more particular. I can say something true. I can say something false, but he says BS tends to be more panoramic. And so it creates a context. The whole thing turns into just BS. And if I'm reading the idiot culture, right. Right. If I'm reading what Carl Bernstein is talking about here in the idiot culture, what I think he's really saying is, look, we're creating a panoramic perspective that is just ridiculous garbage. I mean, at one point he talks about, um, journalistic titillation and trying to get people to believe that the trivial is actually relevant. Right. Trying to get the, uh, you know, the sort of sensational to be the most important things that we look at. And so I think he's sort of gesturing toward what Frankfurt ultimately talks about, which is this idea that we're now set in a context in which we don't even question whether hearing the Diddy story on the news is something we need to hear. I would argue the same with church scandals. Um, you know, we, we talked a little bit about this before the episode, but let's just say the Tony Evans thing, right? Uh, I, I've met Tony Evans in the past, uh, but I have no connection to him, to his ministry. Uh, I don't give, I don't listen. I don't visit his websites. Like I add nothing to that ministry whatsoever as a human being. Sure. Why is it important then that I know that? I just don't know. I didn't even know who, um, I think his name's Steve Larson. I'm probably getting that wrong. Steve Lawson. Um, but he was another guy who recently had some sort of umlicit affair with a young girl. I hadn't even heard that one. Yeah. I don't even know who the guy is. I certainly don't need to know what's happened with him. Now it's a national ministry. So there, I don't wanna, you know, my knowledge of it shouldn't determine whether or not it's relevant. Right. Uh, but so for some people I could see, like, yeah, I've been giving to this ministry. I've been supporting this ministry. If this gentleman has had a moral failure, I may want to rethink that giving. Mm-hmm. It's gonna matter to some people more than it does others. It's gonna matter to some people more than it does to others. And so what, what I think we have to do in my estimation is we have to assess what does it look like for us to actually love our neighbor in this setting as opposed to, am I interested in this story? I think that almost needs to be the Christian response to all of these different reports. Augustine, uh, he wrote this. I'll, I'll just read it. Um, this is in his confessions. Or no, I'm sorry. It's in, uh, On Christian Doctrine. On Christian Doctrine, he says, uh, all men are to be loved equally, but since you cannot do good to all, you are to pay special regard to those who, by the accidents of time or place or circumstance, are brought into closer connection with you. And it just strikes me that we're not particularly good at that. Mm-hmm. So you think he's meaning there like small, like your inner circle? I think what he's talking about, you know, just as I read the rest of what he's got there, he's advocating for a love of neighbor. And there are other aspects of his work where, I believe this is in the confessions, where he talks about, um, the incident where Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead.

And then he talks about, you know, some of the people are coming to see Lazarus. They're coming out of a morbid curiosity. And he basically says that their curiosity has overcome their charity, which for Augustine was love, right? Yeah, they didn't care really about him and if he got healed. They just wanted to, like, see if something crazy happened. Let's see, let's be part of the action. And he goes on to talk about, you know, it's very similar to the dynamic people had when they'd come to Jesus and ask for a sign. They're far less interested in Jesus and far more interested in what they can benefit from it or what they can see, this sort of morbid curiosity. And so, the way I read him is, what he's saying is, decide how you can have skin in the game. I actually think Augustine shorts it a little bit, right? I think Christians can always do something to love. Like I said earlier, you know, it's possible for me to pray for the people. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free Retirement Defense Guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. People who are involved in the Diddy situation, even though I don't know any of them. Right. Right. And so there's an action that I can take, a meaningful action that I can take. And so now that I know, whether I should have known in the first place or not is sort of beside the question, right? But now that I know, that seems like an appropriate response. But I think what Augustine is gesturing toward here is, we're going to have a limited capacity to love. There's only so much we can do. That's not to say that God can't open up additional opportunities for us, but the reality is that not everything we hear and read is going to allow us to reach out to someone and actually do good to that person in some tangible, concrete way. Distance, lack of knowledge of these people, whatever else, there are going to be barriers to us doing certain things to love them. And so what he's just arguing for is, look, let's not lose sight of what our goal is here. Our goal is to love God and neighbor to the best of our abilities. And what does that really look like? It means that we can't neglect the people that God has put in our path in order to satisfy some weird curiosity of people from afar. It means that we have to make hard choices because our ability to love is limited. And one of the ways that we need to make sure that we're making those choices is that we are giving our attention, that we are loving, and I'm reading into Augustine a little bit now, but giving our attention to the people who are near to us because God has placed us here. And so because God has placed us here, wherever our here happens to be, those are the people that we are responsible to love. And so that's kind of how I have been sort of started to think through how do we sift and sort some of these things? How do we really go about thinking in terms of, okay, if I'm hearing these stories, what is my responsibility to love? What can I do? As opposed to what I think the news or even independent journalists often want you to do, which is just stay tuned. I think it's a trap we could fall into on the podcast as well. There's not an, I mean, yes, it'd be great if people came back, right? But we do try to stay away from the sensational stories and talk more substantively about issues because we're not trying to make things relevant that aren't relevant. Right. Well, and if you do scroll on something, you see, like, let's just say for Diddy, like I was saying earlier, before we recorded, if you're looking at something, you know, your interest gets piqued or whatever, and then 20, 30 minutes can go by and all of a sudden you're like, man, I'm like, I'm like way down the algorithm now. I've seen all these posts that they're feeding me. And, uh, but, but then you look and it's like 30 minutes. Like, what did I get from that? Like what, how did it benefit me? Like, and it just kind of further, furthered my addiction of knowing the latest gossip, which I know I couldn't think of a scripture. I was actually going to look real quick. You might be able to rattle one off, but I think this definitely relates to human nature and our, uh, infatuation with gossip and just kind of knowing the dirt on people. And I don't know if that's for me at times, it's like a self-justification. Like you can say, oh, I'm not doing that bad because I'm not, I'm not doing like what I'm seeing in these headlines. It almost can make you feel bolstered. Like you're doing better or, you know, you're not doing as bad. Does that make sense? You know what I mean? Like, I think the human nature can get people in, in all those different ways. So. Yeah. It is something that I think, again, you know, when we're looking at what Bernstein has talked about, right? here's, here's his phrase. I referenced it before, but I'll read it now. In this new culture of journalistic titillation, we teach our readers and our viewers that the trivial is significant and the lurid and loopy are more important than real news. Now he doesn't define real news, right? But the way I usually think about it, I think this is from a guy who wrote, his name's Stevens. He wrote a book called Beyond News. And he references, again, I think he references the difference between a dog bites man story and a man bites dog story. That's awesome. Dog bites man is sort of like, yeah, it happens, right? The dog bit the mailman. Ha ha ha. Sort of thing. But man bites dog? Why? That's weird. That's crazy. And so he juxtaposes these two and says that often, you know, while the more interesting or compelling stories might be man bites dog, oftentimes the more substantive stories, the ones that we could really do something about or the ones that are less interesting, won't make the front page, won't have a great headline, are the man bites dog or the dog bites man stories. And so everything we're seeing, I hate to say it like this because it sounds sort of conspiratorial, right? So let me rephrase. I think much of what we see and much of what reporters deem relevant is driven by our misdirected desires in the first place. 100%. We have a weird whatever it may be, right? curiosity, quest for novelty, right? We don't like the mundane. We like for there to be a villain. We want a white hat and a black hat, you know, whatever those misdirected desires are. Reporters are recognizing that and they're doing a really good job of recognizing that and they're writing to it. Now, does that make them sort of people who are taking advantage of our frailties? I doubt it. My guess is they have very similar frailties. And so as they're getting more and more clicks, more and more views, more and more buildup on social media from writing these things, what they're reading is, they're saying, wow, people are really interested in what I write. And that can be a very seductive thing. I just listened to a podcast yesterday with a Catholic philosopher, DC Schindler, and he made this joke. He said, I don't know how some people deal with success. He's like, part of the reason I've never been successful is because I didn't want to deal with success. And it was like, that's pretty good, right? But he said, he's like, it's much harder to think when you're successful because you're constantly having to figure out how to respond or how people are going to respond to what you think. Part of success is then playing to the audience. You know, coming down on the wrong side of an issue or saying something wrong is going to be problematic. Right. And I think that a lot of times when we see journalists doing what they do, what we're really seeing is they're in this sort of weird interdependent relationship with their audience. And so, yeah, while they may do something a little controversial every once in a while, they are fundamentally as unaccountable as the leaders that...

They're exposing. And that's partly just due to the fact that, you know, I don't care who you read, if you're listening to this and you don't know me personally, you don't know me, right? You don't know Nate, right? Like, you just don't. Like, I don't know most of the guests that we have on the podcast. Nate knows some of them, but I don't know most of them personally. I think they're great people, have had great interviews, all that kind of good stuff. And from what I know of them, I'm comfortable having them on. I don't know them, right? Like that distance, right, creates a gap in my knowledge and your knowledge, you know, in the listener's knowledge. And so we have to be careful not to venerate these people. We're really platforming not people, but ideas. And those ideas can be important to the extent that we then take those back to our local context and learn to love one another better. That's kind of how I've thought through this. I think it speaks to, to the complexity of human nature, though, as well, James, because there has to be scenarios. I know me in particular, there's been times where I've known people that have fell in ministry or, you know, you see these like Tony Evans, I think is what you said, who you said earlier, but there's probably people in his close circle that didn't see that coming, even though they knew them, you know, even though they knew them, it just shows how broken we all are, like that, you know, anybody is susceptible to it. And we're not invincible. We have to make sure we're setting up these safeguards. And I really like what you said earlier, like, we don't have to choose to scroll down and like get addicted to that. Like we could all decide to not read. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. And then maybe it would shift that, but that would take a lot of people to do that. But yeah, that's just something to think about because I think we've all been surprised and shocked before by people we didn't see them doing this or doing that. I think if we were, yeah, I think that's a good point. Yes. You never really know somebody. That's why wives or husbands of 30 years of marriage can still be surprised by something their wives or husbands do. Right? It doesn't matter how intimate you are with someone, they can always surprise you in good and bad ways. Right. I think the other thing I'd just throw out there in this, Nate, is one of the things that we're not particularly good at is thinking that our personal practices need to make an impact. So on some level, I agree with you. It's going to take an awful lot of us to change the stories that are coming out on social media. It's going to take an awful lot of us to sort of eliminate the inane videos on TikTok or Instagram or what have you. Right? A lot of people are going to have to stop using the programs. A lot of people are going to have to stop watching those reels or whatever they are. Right? Same with X or Threads or whatever else you're on. Yes, it's going to take a lot of us. It's going to take massive changes in behavior. But also, you could just do it. You could just stop doing it. Yep. And on some level, it's going to matter. And I would argue that it matters on the level of our local group of people that we are supposed to be paying attention to and loving. If I spend 30, 40, 50 minutes scrolling through reels on Instagram, is that not 30, 40, 50 minutes that I could have spent doing something for the people in my local area that would have been loving to them, caring for them, those kind of things. And so, I don't, I think I did at one point, and we have a program, Go Dark, Shine Bright. Like, we've run that campaign multiple times. And the idea was to coordinate a lot of people to get off social media all at the same time. I don't, so I'm not opposed to those kind of programs. I'm not opposed to that sort of effort. But I do think that we often put way too much weight on them. And at the end of the day, there's so much more that we can do just in our families, just in our local environment, in our local churches, what have you, that if we made different choices and focused on, look, all men need to be loved equally, but since we cannot do good to all, we need to pay special regard to those who, by the accidents of time, place, and circumstance are brought into closer connection with us. If we just did that and said, look, like, I get it. People got hurt in the Diddy thing. I'm going to pray for them. But I don't know any of them. If one of them were to cross my path tomorrow, I would show empathy and love and compassion and try to help them with whatever I could help them with. But the reality is, today, that's not there. Nope. And if you travel back in time to 1992, like we started today, I was not addicted to, like, checking Instagram first thing in the morning to see if somebody messaged me or to see what the latest news is. Like, it was such a different time. And I've done the Go Dark, Shine Bright campaign twice. And I will tell you, the first time I did it, like, I did not realize. You don't realize until you remove it for five days, three days, whatever it is. How much you actually do it. Even just one day. If you took a break and put limits on your phone, yes, you were like, I was shocked, James. I was like, I cannot believe. And then you look at the app on your phone and see how much on your phone. Of course, I'm on my phone a lot for stuff during the day for work. But if you look at how much of that is just scrolling on social media, you're like, whoa, man, I wasted a lot of time in those five days. I was way more productive and I was more available to my family, more available to my friends. I mean, and if you look back at, like I was saying, 1992, we weren't distracted like we are now. Right. And then I look at my kids even more so than our generation. I look at my kids. If they have just two seconds, if I was to say, OK, you have eight seconds, what would they do? They'd be like, I'm going to look at my phone for eight seconds. It's like the addiction is so strong there for all of us. And it doesn't happen overnight. It happens just small little increments. You do more and more and more. And before you know it, you're sucked into it. So having that reset and that break is so good. Like I've actually tried to start doing it more, you know, regularly, like every few months, not just waiting each year for that campaign because it's really, really healthy, I think. Well, and I think at the end of the day, what we're really talking about and what what Bernstein is talking about in the culture, what Augustine is talking like, all these things sort of converge. And what I think we can take away from all this is we need to really think through what we're prioritizing. And I know when people hear me say that, maybe they immediately go to, oh, I should prioritize certain news stories over others. Like the election is more important than Diddy, or, you know, hurricane is more important than the election or whatever. That's not what I'm saying, right? I think what we're really being distracted from is loving our neighbors. We're being, our curiosity is overshadowing what we're really supposed to be doing. We're not supposed to be in the know about everything, right? That is not, it's nowhere in scripture, right? Hey, everybody, you know what the point of life is, is to know everything that's going on around you. Nope. You don't see that. Nope. What we see is that we are to understand God and know him to be in relationship with him and have sort of this desire to love him. And by loving him, also love our neighbors. That's our priority. That's why they're the greatest commandment and the second greatest commandment, right? And so a lot of this curiosity, a lot of this, what I would call morbid curiosity, right? About, oh, what did they do with that? You know, this, that, or the other thing or whatever. Even I would say the interest in church scandals. It's not that I don't think that's important. It's obviously important. And it's important for a number of reasons. But should I, should somebody like me who has no,

particular connection to Tony Evans or whoever else. Should I be obsessed with that? I'm not sure I should, right? And, you know, if I were gonna write an article on it or something like that, yes, I'd need to get a little bit more information on what's going on and how that works. And you know, and maybe I'll do that. That's sort of part of the work. But the overall goal of the work is not to point people to the article. It's to help Christians be formed and to be in thinking well about what is going on around them. How do we pull ourselves back from this media environment that is constantly putting sizzle out with no steak, right? Like, how do we move away from the sensationalism to say, yeah, but when the rubber meets the road, I have to love. And I think that's what I would, what I'd really like to leave our listeners with. It's how do I go about loving? What does that look like? The goal is not to just stay tuned, right? Here are more breaking news. Respond, react, whatever. The idea is to point to and glorify the triune God in all that we do. And I don't know that that's done by setting the alert on our phone to make sure that we are up on all the latest church scandal. Right. And even to take it one step further than that, for me anyway, if I have caught myself in different seasons, even during this election, getting too focused on staying tuned and being up to date with, well, they said this and now this, I'm gonna wait and see how they respond to this. I'm gonna watch the questionnaires at the White House in the press room. When you get so focused on that, my anxiety can go up because like fear and worry about what's to come. And dude, we can't control that and God doesn't intend it to. But also I'll say as a Christian, the last 25, 30 years, some of the best moments of my life where I've just felt so fulfilled and so rewarding, it's so rewarding to know that God uses you as a vessel to minister to somebody, to lift somebody up if they're in despair, if they need encouragement or just actually physical help. I've missed out on those opportunities. I know I have because I've been distracted by the wrong stuff. And if we're just constantly staying tuned, then we're almost kind of blocking off maybe opportunities that God could give us to love our neighbors. And actually I just had this exact thing happen last night. I was so thankful. I was watching the games we had here in Kansas City. We had Chiefs and the Royals. And so I made some smoked food, kind of some game day kind of food. And I was like, you know what? I have some extra. My son didn't stay. I'm gonna take some to my neighbors. And it's like, and I'm not saying that to be like, look at me. I loved on my neighbor last night, but as you were saying that earlier, I was convicted because it's like, I could have been reading an article or doing something, trying to research, because sometimes I'm on my phone even when I'm watching a game. But I was thankful that I felt that. And then when I went over there, he was like, man, this meant a lot. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. I have no idea, like I had a horrible day. And it's like, I'm just thankful that I didn't miss that opportunity because I wasn't caught up in the... You know what I mean? And I think that can be all of us. We all could miss opportunities and I know I certainly have. Yeah, and I think it's important. I just had an article published in the Washington Times. And so maybe we can link to that in the description as well. But I would just say, when I was asked to write this article, it was about being distracted by sort of, quote, trivial matters, right? Why aren't people focused on the war in Israel? Why aren't people focused on the upcoming presidential election as opposed to trying to figure out what to do with Diddy? That was sort of the way it was presented to me, that there's a... The trivialities are overtaking the substance. And as I started writing it, I was really just sort of convicted that, no, anytime someone is hurt, injured, abused, these are not trivial stories. There's something different going on here. And so that's why I went into the idea of Augustine's notion of curiosity versus charity. You know, at what point am I just trying to know as opposed to trying to love? At what point am I reading these for my own benefit, my own interest, my own entertainment, as opposed to thinking through the people on the other end of that story? And so I think there's a sense in which we wanna make sure that as we interact in a very digital world, as we interact in a global environment, as we interact, you know, like we've got information coming at us from all sides at all times. And we could interact with it. Like it would take more than 24 hours in a day for us to interact with all the information we have access to. No question. And so what we wanna make sure of is that the information that comes our way, we're not just flippantly dismissing it because there's nothing I can do about that, right? But I think that as information comes our way, we have to be wise in the way that we think about it. And I think the framing that increasingly I'm gonna be using is, okay, now that I know this, what does it look like for me to love the people on the other end of this story? What does it mean to be their neighbor at this point? And then I'll have varying degrees of action that I could take. And so that's the way I'm increasingly thinking about the news right now. I think it's easy for me, particularly, to get caught up in the whole, what's relevant and why is it relevant? And should this ever be reported? And I think those are interesting questions and they can be fruitful discussions and actually helpful. And so not like I'm gonna let go of that, but I also think that sometimes I use those more intellectual questions to avoid actually caring about the people on the other end of the story. And so that would be my, I guess my encouragement is as we're looking at these things, reading these things, sure, feel free to disagree with what's written. Feel free to, you know, FEMA is a great example. We kind of started there, but I mean, you know, you can find contradictory information right after you're done listening to this about FEMA. Yep. Right. None of it changes the fact that more help is needed. And we got, unfortunately, another big one coming tonight that's even bigger than Helene. That's right. Milton looks like it's bad, so let's all try to remember to be in prayer for South Florida and all the efforts of the people that are still struggling in North Carolina. When you really start thinking about it with this and talking about this today, James, it does convict me even that I know more about the Diddy story than I should because, you know, like, I'm telling you guys, I'm guilty of what we're saying. Like, we're all, whatever the word is, subject to it. We're all, it's all possible to hit us, but I think it's important to take inventory and just look at where your heart and your mindset is if it's focusing on the wrong things because you don't want to be distracted because God could give you an opportunity and you don't want to miss it. And I will say I am at a place, so I agree with you, Nate. I think I've been susceptible to That's the word I was looking for. Thank you. Yeah, sure. No problem. I think I've been susceptible to this at different points. Right now, I am in a wonderful spot where I am blissfully unaware of much of what's going on because I've been just doing other reading. And so my cadence is just a little different. You know, I'm reading a book called God in the City right now. And so it's like kind of a heavier academic book with all the footnotes and end notes and all that kind of good stuff. And so I'm spending more time when I have time. I'm off my phone and I'm reading that book. And so I'm less aware of things. Like when you brought up the FEMA stuff yesterday, I hadn't heard of it. That is part of my cadence, right? I feel like...

and this may be something that would be instructive for folks, is just to say, I do spend time. I mean, I kind of have to, right? It's part of an occupational hazard that you have to be up on the news and understand what's going on to some degree. But I often try to take a break from it. You're intentional with your time. Yeah. Yeah, and the reality is that what I would say, what's going on in the world is an aspect of what we need to be aware of, right? The news reporting and different things like that are, they're not false. They're real, but they're also framed. And so in that framing, we're not always getting the sort of symbolic value, or I would say theological value out of the stories that we're hearing. And so my cadence has generally been, in addition to doing, you know, Bible study on a daily basis or what have you, I try to go out and find more substantive works that I actually have to work to read, right? They're going to help me reframe some of the reporting that I'm going to dive back into after I'm done reading that book. It gives me a new lens, a new way of thinking about it. And it's just a cadence that I've developed over time. Yep. Part of that, like I said, is, you know, the occupational hazard of interacting with the news as a podcaster and as a writer and stuff like that. Like that's just part of what you do. But I would also say it's an occupational hazard from a theological perspective because I just geek out on, you know, super nerdy books with, you know, 15 footnotes a page. I get excited. I'm like, oh, wow. I get to buy more books. So it's, you know, I think people, what I would say is you need to find the right cadence for yourself where the news cycle isn't driving your attention, but that you're in control of your attention as much as you can be, that you're in control of your attention. You're giving your attention to the things of God always and that the news and the reports that are coming out and different things like that, books that are written, what have you, podcasts are part of your attending to God at all times. These are things that lead you closer to always fearing the Lord first, always fearing the Lord, always recognizing Him as infinitely more relevant than any other actor or factor we might encounter. And the cadence of information that you consume while you're doing that, the way you go about doing that, can either help or hinder you from actually viewing God as infinitely more relevant than any other actor or factor you might experience. Absolutely. And I'm so glad personally that we took a look. I'm so thankful you sent me that article yesterday and I got to take a look at this because 32 years has made a huge difference in the relationship with journalism and truth and who gets there first, who doesn't. And I think it's really good for us to remember that so we don't forget it. And that, you know, as we're doing these things that you're saying, taking inventory and setting up cadences for our life, it's important also to realize human nature is not changing. Like it's going to continue going the opposite direction. But as believers and as followers of Christ, if we really want to make Him known to everyone and not miss opportunities to love our neighbors, I think it's important for us to recognize that stark difference from 92 to 2024. By a percent. So, well, I think, you know, to sort of end this episode, what I would, what I would just say is things are absolutely different. As I've said before, the world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that distort and deny God, right? But at the same time, the world isn't different. We could still find ways to distract ourselves in 1992, just the way that we find them now. They're just a little bit more convenient for us to distract ourselves with. I wasn't sitting around in 1992 reading my Bible 24 7, right? I wasn't sitting around reading theological books or actually feeding my soul, right? I was probably playing, you know, Super Nintendo and, you know, just like wandering around aimlessly with nothing to do. Like it wasn't like I was doing the right things back then. It's just that at this point, we've created a context in which it's easier to do the wrong thing. And so it's getting harder and harder to do the right thing. Yep. And, and, and so, you know, yes, things have absolutely changed, but this is still on us. It's still our responsibility to prioritize. When I say prioritize God, I'm not saying let's put them at the top of our checklist so he's the first thing we check off. Nope. God is what we are immersed in. He is the context in which we live our lives. And so that's what I think we need to encourage each other to do. And, and as we're interacting in this new environment, we just need to recognize that, yeah, we can complain and be frustrated and critique the news media for putting out trivial stories, but that should not minimize the people at the other side of those stories. That's what we have to, that's what we have to avoid. Sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Can I say one more thing? I meant to actually tell you this offline because this kind of just blew my mind. I seen a video the other day and I'll try to find it and send it to you later. But it was this, uh, uh, speaker talking about, uh, Yahweh and the word Yahweh and about how do you say Yahweh without, um, without, uh, syllables or whatever. And, and then he said, it's basically like the way you say it without that, without moving your mouth is that mimicking like breathing in and breathing out. And it was just, it was talking about, and it just was fascinating to me because it's like he is like the reason we're able to breathe each day. Like he gave, he gave us breath. He gave us life. So I think maybe tying that into all this, like just like when you said immersed, keeping him there, but, and, and I probably botched that cause I haven't seen it in a couple of weeks, but it's just stuck with me. It's like, you know, when you, when you think about it like that, like, cause when you come into this world, you breathe in and then at some point you will breathe your final breath. And it's like Yahweh. It, it just kind of amazed me because I don't, I think sometimes we take that for granted. We really do truly have everything, including our, in the physical uh breath in our lungs because of him. Yeah. I mean, I think this life is an exercise in trying to figure out how loving God and loving neighbor becomes as natural as breathing. Yes. And so, you know, we've got to keep that at the forefront of our minds that this is what we're doing. We're standing in the presence of God. And as we stand in the presence of God, more things become possible than we ever would have thought. The cares and concerns of the world tend to fade away a bit, not that we don't address them, but we approach them from a particularly strong foundation that most other people in the world simply lack. And so this is about demonstrating a Christian. Difference with regard to the news media and figuring out how it looks for us to love God and love neighbor, even if the information we're getting isn't particularly, we might not call it particularly relevant to our lives. At the end of the day, once we know, I think we do have an obligation to act. There has to be a, so what after that? And I don't mean a so what in the sense of who cares, but I mean is a, so what, now that I know this, what do I do? That can come in any number of forms, but I also think it should temper how much we go about knowing. If I need to respond to everything that I know, I need to now watch my own capacity. It's, I mean, I'll go back to the gym, man, because I, you know, it's the easiest metaphor for me, right? I cannot throw, I mean, I see some of these guys tossing 400, 500 pounds on the bench press, bro, that's not me. I crush myself. Yeah, right? 300, you know, 310? No problem. 400, 500? Crazy town. I don't even understand how they do it. Right. And so each of us is going to have our particular capacity. And if we try to take on more than we actually can, we may end up getting stuck under the bar. Yep. And the person that wants you to get stuck under the bar the most or to be distracted the most is the enemy. The devil wants to get us away from doing what we're supposed to be doing. So, and I, I want to go back to what I said really quick. I, I made a mistake. I didn't mean syllable. I meant, um, consonant. Like I hadn't read it in a while, but it's like his whole point was how did you, how do you say Yahweh without that? And it's like breathing. So that just really stuck with me. And I was like, man, that's amazing when you said that about being immersed in him. So that's my goal. I hope anyone and everyone that reads, that hears this, uh, is encouraged, um, to take inventory and just look at how much, like you, like James was just saying, uh, we all have the ability to have an impact around us by loving our neighbors. I, I, for one, don't want to be distracted, uh, by doing, putting too much of the wrong stuff

And, you know, if you have the gumption, I'd also encourage you to take a look at Augustine. Some of his work is fantastic. You can usually get the books and I'll try to link to one in the show description. You can get these books on Amazon for like 99 cents usually. They're really cheap. Wow. These older historical books. You can even find on the internet for free. And so he's worth digging into in a lot of ways. I'm not an Augustine scholar by any stretch of the imagination. I do have one coming on the show coming up, Veronica Ogle. She'll be scheduled in in the next couple of months. She's fantastic. She's an Augustine scholar. And so I'm excited to have a conversation with her. But I do enjoy reading Augustine and I find him interesting and enlightening. And he's far more contemporary than I would have thought for somebody who wrote during the decline of the Roman Empire. Yeah, I wouldn't have thought that either. That's interesting. Right. He's got a lot to say that's still very, very relevant to what Christians are facing today. So I encourage you to go check those resources out. We'll put some stuff in the show notes, but yeah, make sure as we're interacting with media, I think to sum up this episode, let's make sure as we're interacting with media that we're not just scratching, you know, itching our curiosity, but that we're actually seeking new ways to love people. Yeah, that's good. All right, Nate, thanks a lot, man. This is a great conversation. I appreciate you bringing some of this to my attention. It's awesome. Yeah, it was a fun one. Yeah. And we will catch you on the next episode of Thinking Christian. Take care, everybody. I just want to take a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the Thinking Christian podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more. Hey friends, Nicole Yunus here from the How to Study the Bible podcast. I wanna invite you to experience a fresh look at the story of Joseph and what it means for you today. Life can totally throw us for a loop, whether it's your family or your marriage, work, church, or something else entirely. Maybe you have found yourself in a season that you never would have expected and that you certainly wouldn't have signed up for. In this six-week Bible study together, we're gonna talk about the biblical story of Joseph, a man who lived an unexpected life and trusted God through it all. We'll talk about the blessings he experienced, the promises God keeps, the way that tests of our character can actually refine our faith. We'll talk about patience. We'll talk about loss. Absolutely talk about redemption. So come join us for the six-week series over on the How to Study the Bible podcast. Can't wait to dive in with you.