How Should Chrisitans Think about Money? A Conversation with Rylee Meek, Part 1

The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that deny God. As such, we need thinking Christian to become as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. I'm Dr. James Spencer. Through calm, thoughtful, theological discussions, thinking Christian highlights the ways God is working in the world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions that hinder Christians from becoming more like Christ. Now, on to today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I am joined today by Riley Meek. And Riley runs an organization called The King's Council, and he also hosts The King's Council podcast. And so we're going to be talking a little bit about his ministry, his life, and how he sees entrepreneurship fitting into the kingdom of God. So, Riley, welcome. Thanks for being here, man. Yeah. Hey, James. Happy to be here, man. This will be fun. Hey, I'll just introduce yourself to the audience, man. Tell us how you came to faith, you know, kind of where you're at now, and just we'd love to hear a little bit about your story. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, brother. So I jokingly say I gave my life to entrepreneurship at the age of 15. And then I actually gave my life to Christ at the age of 16. I grew up in a small community in South Dakota. And bro, when I say small, I'm like, we're talking like a thousand people in my town. My graduating high school class was like 45 kids. And so there wasn't a whole lot going on there. But the summer of my sophomore year of high school, I actually was, I spent six weeks up in Minnesota, which is actually where I currently still reside. And I was just, I was introduced to the gospel, like the true gospel. And I had never, you know, in South Dakota, it's kind of sad, but it's just, everybody is just like, you're just assumed you're a Christian, right? And I didn't really believe there was any difference between like Jesus as Lord of my life or versus like, oh, we just go to church. And then the same people I see at church or at the bar, you know, an hour later, right? And it was just like, this is the way of life there. And so when I had this experience of like, oh my goodness, like Jesus is real and that's the relationship. Again, at the age of 16, radically changed my life because I was in some junk leading up to that, man. Just partying a lot and doing a lot of stupid stuff through at a young, you know, far too young of an age and had just a, you know, a tough time really going back to my environment, being around the same people that I used to be around. And, you know, just a totally different me, right? It's like, I wasn't the guy that was out partying or doing all this stupid stuff I used to do. And, you know, by the grace of God, I just was able to get through that time though. I moved back up to Minnesota, but literally the day I graduated high school, got plugged into a small community college here, was introduced to InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. And I was like, this, this is incredible. Like some of the greatest community and bonds in my, my life. And I really don't have any connection with those guys anymore. But I almost, I can almost guarantee if I called any of them right now and I was like, Hey, I need you. They would be there in an instant because there was just a brotherhood that, that we had built there. But, you know, life happened. And rather than me actually living by design, I was just kind of by default. And I started down, continued in my entrepreneurial journey and experienced what the world would call, you know, a lot of success financially. And, and I continued to, to, you know, grow my different businesses. And James, one of the things, man, that, that I never really, you know, as I left college, I, I just, I, I no longer had the community. I no longer had the friends that I, that I was hanging around with and I was being influenced a heck of a lot more than I was being the influencer. And my life just turned into a train wreck. Like my story really truly is the prodigal son. And, you know, when I believe money is a, you know, can be a great tool, but it's a great magnifier. And thank God he allowed me to grow through these situations in my life. And he exposed a lot of areas that I still needed to grow in. And, and thankfully he just never took his hand off of me, man. I ended up, I went through a divorce, just doing a lot of stupid things. And the real reason why, what I equate it back to is I just didn't have community and I didn't have discipleship in my life. I didn't really even know what that was because when I gave my life to Christ and then I just went back to, you know, South Dakota, it was like, well, I have the Bible and that was pretty much it. And I'm trying to figure this stuff out really on my own. And, and not having that, that kind of mentorship in my life was, was something that has really been on my heart to be able to pour back into, to others just so they don't, don't have to go through the junk that I went through. And so, you know, fast forward about four years ago, uh, you know, we have, again, financially, we've done very well. God's blessed us, um, with multiple different business ventures and I'm only 38, but when I was 34, man, I had just this, this moment in time where it was just like, God, is this, is this all there is? Is this, is this what life is about? Now, granted, I hadn't been praying. I hadn't been communicating with God at all other than like, I'm at my, my ends with of this, like, I got it. Like this has got to be more to life. And so just, just this period of unfulfillment, uh, where I just found myself crying out to him, right? And how good of a God do we have that? It doesn't matter where you are or, you know, how long it's been. Uh, it was just like, Lord, I know you're real, but I'm, you know, I'm sorry. I've been a fool for this, this long a time. And I just remembered back to those times that I had with that brotherhood, that community where it was like, man, we, things were just, it was just amazing. The relationships that, that we were having, it was church. Like that was church. And so I started just to think about where I was at in life. And, and you know, I've been involved in a number of business masterminds and, and groups that, that pose as community, right? But most of them were, it's like, you get together to supposedly do business. And then I find, you know, they're, they're all going off to the bars afterwards. And it's just like, listen, I don't want that for my life anymore. Right. And I started just to look at like, scan the internet of like, is there a community out there that actually has, that is faith-based, that isn't just a bunch of gray-haired men? Uh, nothing against them, but that could be fun. That could actually have, like, could we actually like, is, can we make Christianity cool again? This was like my, my mindset on this. Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility, and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. And I think through that, I started to raise my hand. I was like, does anybody else feel this way? And, you know, I was able to get plugged back into a church community, seeked out different mentors in different parts of the country. And I was, I was just plugging into the word of God, asking those tough questions that I didn't know. And God radically has grown me in the past four years, man. And through that process, it was just, hey, does anybody else feel this way? It turns out there's a lot of people out there, specifically entrepreneurs that were like, yeah, also, we feel a little out of place. Like, because entrepreneurs, we, we think a little bit differently in the fact that it's like, we see a problem and now it's like, how do we solve that problem? How do we make it better? And, and I think, you know, the church as a whole, I think does a great job, right? At serving for men's ministry or women's ministry, or there's a kid, children's ministry. But like, there's a segment of the population of entrepreneurs where

2024 and beyond is really provision, being provision for the God-given vision of the church, because the number one enemy of every vision is lack of provision. And there is so much that needs to be done, not just in America, but throughout the entire world. And the reality is, it takes money. It takes resources. And I believe God is calling those kingdom-minded entrepreneurs that are growth-minded. And it's like, Hey, let's rally the troops. Let's lock arms. Let's create this kingdom economy concept here to actually be able to sow into the pastors, the ministry leaders, the non-profit ministries that are doing incredible things. But man, if they just had resources, right? If they just had the financial means, how much more, how much more quickly could they impact the kingdom on the earth today, right? We pray thy kingdom come, which is his rule and reign on this earth. But also, God wants to do incredible things through us. And if we had the provision and the means to actually do those things, I think the amount of lives and the amount of generations that can be impacted will radically change. But it takes that segment of the population, those that have that heart and that gifting, right? Because first off, and then I'll throw it back to you, James. It's God that gives us the ability to create wealth, right? It ain't me. It's God. It ain't any of us. There's gurus out there that, you know, Joel Osteen will tell you that, you know, that you can sow and you'll get it back, right? Biblical principles, because it's God, but also it takes those with that heart transformation, that understanding that, yes, I've been giving that gifting, that talent, and that ability. Now, it is up to me to steward it well. How do I steward these giftings, talents, and abilities well so when the resources come in, we can then distribute them appropriately to make that true kingdom impact here on the earth. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, I will say I agree 100% that there's a unique skill set and mindset to being an entrepreneur. I just had a guy on, his name is Lowell Buzznitz, and he did some research. He was an instructor for a long time, but he looked specifically at entrepreneurship. And his research was rooted in this idea that entrepreneurs use heuristics or decision-making frameworks, you know, and shortcuts far more often and far more liberally than most of us do, right? And so you have to get more comfortable with that sort of risk assessment, that quick risk assessment. And his research really bears out, I think, what you're talking about, that there is a group of people who just think differently about what they're seeing. And I think it's really important, the ministry you're doing, to sort of cultivate that because even in the ministry we're doing out in Northfield, so I was telling you, I went with the D.L. Moody Center. And one of the things we're doing is we've spun off a couple of for-profit businesses to try to help us support what we're doing on the nonprofit side. And so it's been difficult work, especially for a guy coming out of academia, but it's been a lot of fun. And I think it's going to pay dividends down the road because now we can focus really on doing the mission and just allow some of these other for-profit businesses to do what they do. And so I think it's a really important ministry paradigm that we can explore and really make work in a lot of ways. And so, yeah, I love the way you're thinking there. And I mean, the small group curriculum just goes to my heart. So I love training and helping folks get into discipleship. So excited to learn a little bit more about it, man. I mean, when you're training entrepreneurs to do this, sort of what is the... And I don't know that the discipleship really will look different, but it almost has to have some unique quality. So what are you focused on when you're doing some of your small group curriculum? What do you highlight for entrepreneurs as they're going through your program? A great question, James, because for me, when I was really diving into scripture, it's like, okay, God, here's what radically changed for me. I realized when I was 16, I was looking to Jesus as savior of my life, right? That's like all of us, like that's what we think. Jesus is savior. But as I continued to read the Bible, I always, one phrase that I always skipped over before savior was Jesus as Lord and savior. And I'm like, wait a minute, what's the difference here? Because so many of us want Jesus as savior and so few of us want him as Lord of our life. And when I had that understanding, again, this is why I just, I love scripture so much. It's living, it's breathing because God reveals things at the perfect timing for us, right? And it's like, right, now I'm committing to Lordship. Because if at the end of the day, the only thing that was important was salvation, right? If that's it, the only thing that any of us as believers, literally the only thing that we should care about and do is to preach the gospel, which is a part of what we've been told to do, right? Sure. To preach the gospel. But one thing that is so clear that we are to go and make disciples. Not to go make fans of Jesus, not to go make converts even of Jesus, but disciples, right? Like, and that comes from the word discipline. And so when I'm starting to really understand this and unpack this, I also then realized that, man, the enemy has done an incredible job and I hate giving him any stinking credit at all. But the reality is he's done an incredible job at infiltrating the mindsets of believers. And really, as I'm reading the Bible, I'm starting to hear, you know, I mentioned Joel Osteen, like prosperity possible, right? And then I'm also, where I grew up, every Christian in my town was broke, broken and defeated. And I was like, I don't want any of that crap, right? When I saw that, I'm like... That's back to our mark. Good. Yeah. So when I grew up with that mindset and then I gave my life to Christ and all of a sudden I'm blessed financially, it's like, hold on, I must not be a good Christian. I must not. And now I went down that rabbit hole for 15 plus years of my life where it's like, I can't be both. I can't actually, you know, have money and be, quote unquote, a good Christian, right? Because how I grew up, like, oh, you must be greedy then. You must be that you're that type of person. And at the end of the day, here's again... Let me ask you a serious question. If something triggered a major market drop in the coming months, would your retirement be ready or exposed? With inflation, market volatility and ongoing global uncertainty, more families are taking a closer look at whether their retirement plan is truly built to hold up. And many are finding that adding a layer of protection makes a lot of sense. Sanctuary Metals is a Christian-owned company that helps families strengthen their retirement savings with physical gold and silver through a gold IRA. During uncertain times, many people look to precious metals as a way to add stability when other assets may be under pressure. If you'd like to explore whether a gold IRA is a good fit for your situation, Sanctuary Metals makes it easy to get started. Text GUIDE to 94878 to receive your free retirement defense guide or call 888-958-6579 to speak with one of their knowledgeable team members. Again, text GUIDE to 94878 or call 888-958-6579. God is just so incredible in the living, breathing word that he gives us. I'm reading through the parable of the Good Samaritan, right? It's like I've read this thing so many times, but it's just been about three years now where I'm reading this and with this mindset that I've been, you know, I allow people to put on me, right? Most of us, at the end of the day, if we really think about who, why we think the way we think, it's because of other people's habitual ways of thinking and even speaking about us, right? How we grew up, how we spend time, who we spend time with. Most of us are like-minded in that aspect. And as I'm reading the word and I'm seeking out mentorship and I'm coming, you know, reading the parable of the Good Samaritan again, we understand, okay, guy's beaten, beaten up, he's robbed on the side of the street. Like he's, he's in need, okay? He is, he needs help. The priest comes and he's like, ah, I got stuff to do. He like purposely goes out of his way, passes on the other side of the street. The Levite comes, he's like, oh, can't even touch him because then I'm unclean and I can't, you know, I just, they're too religious for it to help, right? Along comes the Samaritan. And this is my mindset, James. Like, I'm like, well, this guy, the Samaritan, I bet he was a businessman. I bet he was like on a journey because he said he has a donkey. He's probably going to set up his shop in the next town over, right? And this is, again, my spin on this thing. But, but as, as we read this, he's like, he sees him and he's like, oh snap, like, let me help this guy. He bandages him up, puts oil on his head, says it puts him on his own donkey, takes him to the inn, pays the innkeeper, says, hey, take

telling this parable, right? So he's like, which one showed mercy? Of course, it was the Samaritan that showed mercy, right? Yes, absolutely. Because they said they had compassion on the man, right? And then the very next sentence, man, this is what unlocked me. This is what I needed to hear at this moment in time. Jesus says, this is a literal command from him. He said, go and do likewise. And this hit me like a freaking lightning bolt from heaven, man. It was like, oh my gosh, it is incredibly expensive to be the type of Christian that Jesus called me to be. And it was like permission for me at that moment to go make money because it was this limitation that I thought I couldn't be the giftings that God's given me. I wasn't able to fully walk them out because of the limited mindset that I allowed to be put on me. Quite frankly, that the enemy has done from the beginning of time is infiltrate and put doubt in our minds on what scripture actually says, right? Because I mean, the enemy's literally, every time he was even tempting Jesus in the desert, he's like, he's quoting scripture, but he's skews it just a little bit to put doubt in our mind. And then we go down this rabbit trail where it's like, oh, I can't be a good Christian then if I have money, right? And then all of a sudden I'm like, oh my goodness. Okay, but also it says that, well, it's easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. So then I'm struggling with that. I'm like, man. But here's the, when anybody preaches on this, usually it's poverty gospel that they're preaching because they end here. They don't continue on because the very next sentence says, with God, all things are possible. And so I'm like, oh, so the broke person still needs God too? Okay, because, so now I'm just understanding this and really with this, this mindset shift. So long answer to your question, but the majority of things that we disciple people through is mindsets and understanding that why we are to be in, in the word of God on the regular, like daily, if not multiple times daily is because we have to continually be transformed because the enemy has, the enemy cannot block our blessing. Like be crystal clear. He can't do it, but what he can do is infiltrate our mindsets and cause doubt and get us to block our own blessing. And so when, when I look at the Bible now, it's like, okay, I don't have any right to like pull this scripture out or, you know, truncate scripture to fit my agenda. If I do shame on me, right? Well, I have to believe this whole thing. So I believe the entire word of God. And so I get to understand and dive into truly, which I'm sure you love, like the, the context of how things are written and when it was written in the week. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it's so overwhelming actually, but it's so fun and exciting to, to, to get to experience this, this kingdom lifestyle, right. And, and inviting him into this process because the mindset shift that, that we have as an entrepreneur, the permission that we get. And then also just the, the ability to co-create with him, right. That's a gift that he has given us as entrepreneurs. A lot of people, you know, what, what, what some people say, oh, you're greedy. You're only thinking about how to like make money. That's a gift. If you've got people in your life, maybe, maybe consider cutting them out for a period of time because you have a gifting and it's important to, to steward that gifting well. Money will come with that, right. But then that's a whole nother concept of, of stewardship. But the first stewardship that we got to have is what, what has he given us, right. Our giftings, talents and abilities. If we can steward that well, then we can, you know, continue this process of sanctification, which comes back to the understanding that it's not just about preaching the gospel and getting souls saved, right. But it's about discipleship. There's, there's salvation. And then there's sanctification through the rest of this thing. That's what the whole point of this Christian walk is once you've given your life to Christ. And I didn't know any of that, man. If I, if I didn't know that at the age of 16, life would be radically different for me now, but I'm so grateful that I get to know that now. And now our job, what I believe is, is the, the God-given calling on my life right now is to teach that to this next generation rising up those that are specifically entrepreneurs or even wantrepreneurs. People that are like, I know God's called me to more. I know that, that there's, there's something more for me and how do we really pull that greatness out of, out of each other is really just what the process of this discipleship process through the King's council is, is really truly all about. That's sweet, man. I mean, I think, you know, a lot of things you say there, I resonate with. I mean, I was just reading the great commission again, probably over the last six months. I was studying it more in depth and I'm trying to understand it a little bit better. And one of the things that I noticed immediately was that, you know, there's a, therefore, therefore go. And if you look at what that's connected to, it's connected to Christ's authority. He's been given authority, all things over all things, heaven and earth. And so discipleship is about really bringing people under the authority of Christ. It's obviously it involves salvation, but that salvation doesn't mean that you get to exercise and, and to do life on your own terms is kind of the way I like to say it, right. You're constantly pulling yourself back underneath that authority of Christ. And I think there's, there are some things on that where we look at it and we go, man, that's going to keep me from doing stuff that I want to do. But if we look at it on the flip side, we say, but it's going to allow me to do so many things that I don't even know I want to do right now. And so discipleship comes with this amazing sort of discovery. I think of opportunities that we never would have known we'd had if we just wrote on our own wit and wisdom. Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in for this first part of the interview with rightly Meek. We're going to continue in a second part of the interview tomorrow. So come on back for the next episode of thinking Christian. 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